Can anyone tell the difference between rotors and pads (truthfully)?

There are many causes of brake pedal pulsation.

And it matters not a snip.

There are many causes of brake pedal pulsation.

Gee, it's funny how brakes have become absolutely stellar over the years compared to those that existed in 1920, and that in the complete absence of any sort of regulations at all except the requirement of a dual-circuit system.

Even compare brakes from 1970 to now. Regulations were not needed to rid us of unassisted drums...

Don't worry. Toyota has done that for you. Just buy OEM and you've got the best there is for your car.

The dealer.

"Hugo Schmeisser" wrote in news:v-- snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca:

Wow! That was the most excellent brake-pedal pulsation article I have ever seen.

I had googled - but I hadn't seen this article. I read it over and over and over. Thank you thank you thank you. I learned quite a few new things today from that Babcox braking article.

One is that I have been measuring runout all wrong! For example, I didn't clean BEHIND the rotors before measuring the runout. And, I didn't have the dial guage stem at an oblique angle to the rotor and pointing in the direction of rotartion (I had put it perpendicular)! The Babcox article suggests that the repeatable "blip" I experienced might be simply due to vibration induced by that erroneous perpendicular placement. The article also explained that thickness variation is generally the ultimate precursor of the severe high-speed brake pedal pulsation I'm experiencing. By thinking warped rotors, I was heading off in the wrong direction.

Likewise with the friction material and rotor recommendations. Given there are no known friction material standards, and believing the performance oil article at

I can come to the conclusion that one can't believe the parts guy who says "these are ceramic", "these are semi metallic", etc. as it's all just advertising!

For example, the manufacturers can call the SAME friction material either: * Non Asbestos Organic Friction Material (NAO) * Semi-Metallic friction material * Low-Metallic friction material * Cerami-Metallic friction material * Corrector Lining * Euro-Met and more.

Since all those names are for the same set of brake pads, it's pretty clear the advertisers have had a field day with we poor mechanics.

So, what am I going to do?

1. Test runout again with the dial guage pointed at an angle and this time I will first remove the rotors, clean BEHIND the rotors, index the rotors by high spot and low spot and hub runout and torque down three of the six lug nuts, rotating three times to get the lowest runout.

1. If runout is outside of 4Runner specifications (0.028 inches), I'll purchase new rotors and pads and hardware (even though the pads are fine even after more than 50,000 miles).

I'll ONLY buy OEM pads and rotors (anything else seems like a gamble since there are no standards for the performance of those materials nor can we even believe simple material designations such as "ceramic" vs "metallic"). That really leaves nothing but OEM as the right choice.

In general, I go Internet (remembering the punitive almost 9% uncle sam). For my 1988 Nissan Maxima, there is a great dealership in another state that all Nissan owners use who charges at least 20% to 40% less than any dealership (including shipping). There's no other way to go for a Nissan as he's truly the do it yourselfer's friend so much more than the local dealership ever will be.

Do Toyota home mechanics have a similar the-only-right-choice Internet- aware mechanic's friend dealership like Nissan has?

This is the only one I'm personally aware of:

"Hugo Schmeisser" wrote in news:762dnaOjgI7dBprZRVn- snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca:

Hello Hugo, Time and time again, you're the voice of reason with answers!

I checked prices today for new OEM rotors & I was amazed at the results! I called three local dealers and a half dozen Internet suppliers. Predictably, the dealers were at list or above list ($107 per rotor). One local Toyota dealer was way off base at $123 per OEM rotor.

Likewise the lowest Internet dealership was about $72 dollars. But a few were at or near the local dealers' prices for OEM rotors.

The

was close (at $76 dollars) to the lowest price. So, I now have my two preferred Internet-aware Toyota dealers that I can now deal with forever without having to perform much further research (I want to keep THEM in business by giving them my business!).

Thanks for being the voice of reason and answering the question asked. Because of you, we now have a good answer for everyone!

Stu

"Motorhead Lawyer" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Hi Motorhead Lawyer,

I don't see anywhere where I've blamed anyone for anything, least of all Toyota. Besides, I already bought the rotors and pads from the recommended Internet Toyota dealeship. I'm just waiting for them to arrive.

Why would I blame Toyota for the first major repair in the life of the

4Runner, after over 8 years and 50,000 miles? The only other repair this 1998 4Runner has had was the driver door lock broke which took all of a few hours a few weeks ago to replace. (I wish the manual had better instructions, but this Toyota newsgroup walked me through the whole process.)

I hope I didn't mislead anyone how can I blame Toyota for making an absolutely fantastic braking system where the pads can be removed for examination without removing a single bolt! Even after 8 years and 50K miles, my 4Runner still on its first set of pads and the wear groove in each is still deep. This 4Runner is a dream to work on.

I'm only sorry my Toyota 4Runner doesn't break down more often so I can get a better chance to learn and admire how well it's built!

Stu