I was in the booth at my local fiilling station today waiting to pay, when one of the cashiers started yelling at a guy at the pumps over the PA system to turn off his cellphone. Actually she said 'mobile' - I'm in the UK.
So I turned to this cashier and said 'What's that all about?'
She said 'It's Company regulations, - they are considered dangerous with electric sparks and all those fumes.'
I said 'But that phone can't be any more dangerous than all those cars sitting out there with their engines running.
So - what gives? Anyone heard of an incident anywhere when a phone caused an explosion at a gas filling station?
Personally I think that it's a load of bullsh*t ......
David wrote: :: I was in the booth at my local fiilling station today waiting to pay, :: when one of the cashiers started yelling at a guy at the pumps over :: the PA system to turn off his cellphone. Actually she said 'mobile' - :: I'm in the UK. :: :: So I turned to this cashier and said 'What's that all about?' :: :: She said 'It's Company regulations, - they are considered dangerous :: with electric sparks and all those fumes.' :: :: I said 'But that phone can't be any more dangerous than all those :: cars sitting out there with their engines running. :: :: So - what gives? Anyone heard of an incident anywhere when a phone :: caused an explosion at a gas filling station? :: :: Personally I think that it's a load of bullsh*t ......
It's possible but mostly the way you characterize it. Fueling accidents are few because the stations are designed to be idiot proof. Mostly works.
I don't see how a cell phone can cause a spark either, no moving contacts inside and the RF coming off the antenna is very low power at
1.9 Ghz. I have however seen people so distracted while using the cellphone they've driven thru red lights, missed stop signs, wandered over center lines and walked into see the doctor while yaking on their cell phone. Maybe they just don't want anyone getting distracted while pumping gas. That would seem reasonable to me.
Indeed. Actually, it's more dangerous to get in and out of your vehicle while fueling. Ask the guy who gets a shock each time he enters/exists)
Never. Not once. Ever. In fact, they've found that cellphones don't REALLY cause problems for aircraft either. But the airphone people would lose money so they leave the rules in place.
Which is why some of the states are passing laws against using a Cell, at least without hands free.
Please. People do all sorts of things while getting gas. Checking the oil would be something they should be doing. Making a rule that they shouldn't take a cell call would be silly.
Besides, they don't enforce the important rules as it is: Turn off your car. Don't get in and out of it. Don't put gas in milk containers. Don't fill a gas can sitting inside your car. Etc.
Personally, I agree. There are far more logical - and proven - sources of ignition at a fueling station, mainly static sparks.
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We've borrowed enough shows from your side of the pond, they mightbe playing this series on the Beeb, ITV, or Satellite. Eventually. Mythbusters has done a show (Episode 2) focusing on the subject ofexploding gasoline filling stations, and their conclusion wascellphones are NOT that great a hazard - about the only thing in amodern phone that could cause sparks is the ringer vibrate motor, andthat's running at 5V or less and buried WAY inside the phone. Notenough energy to set off anything but a perfect mixture, and enough ofa circuitous flame path to keep it contained for the few millisecondsit would take to burn itself out. Now a proven way to start gasoline fueling fires is a big static spark from getting back in and out of the car with the fuzzy acrylic seatcovers, wearing static-generating clothing and insulating shoes, and then the first thing you touch is the gasoline fueling nozzle.
That one gives you a nice healthy spark that WILL set off the vapors
- and you can get many real-world examples of this by checking security camera tapes from gasoline stations worldwide.
I still use the phone at the pump - I just stay a few feet away from any active nozzle, and I always touch something metal and grounded like the fuel pump outer casing to discharge myself before touching the fuel nozzle.
If a fuel station employee starts getting on your case over a phone call, look to see if he (or she) has any electric or electronic device at all on their person - flashlight, conventional cordless telephone for the station phone, two-way radio, pocket calculator, the remote for their car alarm, or a 'garage door' remote radio clicker to shut down the pumps or set off a burglary 'panic alarm' - and then ask them if that device is Factory Mutual rated for use in Class 1 Division 2 explosive atmospheres...
When they start hemming and hawing that the company policy only covers cellphones at the pumps, you have /just/ proven that the person who wrote the policy is an ass. Though if the metaphoric little blinking "Clue!" light doesn't go on over their heads simply from your asking the question, you may have to spell it out for them... ;-)
And GDF's (gasoline dispensing facilities) are doing their best to prevent this from happening.
Phase I systems (underground storage tanks) have had required grounding on the fill and vapor necks for some time now. Tankers dropping fuel do NOT want sparks. ;-)
Phase II systems are the above-ground systems you see. The pumps, or turbines, are really underground. What you called a pump is really a dispenser, and now have grounding requirements administrated by the controlling air pollution district. When present, you'll see a small clamp visible at the bottom of the dispenser, clearly marked "ground".
You're quite correct in advising the touching of the dispenser, particularly after sliding out of your car seat which generates
10,000+ volts of static electricity.
------------------------------------------------ The DNC - Building a bridge to the 20th Century.
Company regulation huh? Well, go to a different dealer unless you like this station's convenience or pricing. Cells or mobiles have become such an eyesore that I just about have a lower opinion of someone when I see his phone planted in his ear in public place. Conspicuous consumption most always has the appearance of pretentiousness.
BTW, I like the name 'mobile' that you Brits use over the moniker 'cell' used here in the states, but who can fight a group of open-minded people who think that G. W. Bush is fighting terrorism and not the Islamic oil cartel?
Also the PA system, the lighting, the air-line compressor, etc, etc.
I've spent 25 years in the Oil & Gas construction business as a Design Engineer, so I am perfectly familiar with what a real 'Hazardous Area' is.
All instruments located there have to be certified by FM as 'intrinsically safe' or alternately designed as 'explosion-proof'.
And if a gas filling station was dangerous enough to be treated as a Hazardous Area, then I wouldn't want to drive into it!
I worked for a while in Litvinov, Czech Republic, where a public road actually goes right through the middle of a huge petrochemical works!
There are large signs at the roadside stating 'POZOR' (Danger) and red lights that will flash in an emergency. The sign advises (in Czech) that if the red lights flash, you should stop immediately & switch off the ignition.
If I'd ever seen those red lights flashing, I would have floored the pedal to get the hell out of there asap ..........
No, actually it isn't...the problem is that from an aircraft the cellphone can 'hit' many many celltowers because of the hugely increased range of the much higher antenna on the phone. The ground towers are spaced so that the ground based 'mobile phones' normally can access only a few towers at most and the electronics can handle this small amount of simultaneous connection but cannot handle the hugely increased 'traffic' which is caused when dozens of tower sites are accessed simultaneously by one transceiver in an aircraft.
That's one aspect...another is that because cellphones move around they don't need to be strictly proofed against causing interference to adjacent electronic services like one is which must operate inside an airliner. There are many delicate systems like ILS (Instrument Landing Systems) which can be messed up by unrefined radio transmitters.
The cellphone system designed for operation aboard airliners operate somewhat differently. they access cell towers which are much more widely spaced and in a system which is 'fine tuned' to include a tower near most large airports to handle the close (and low) customers.
At 30,000 feet, the numbers of towers you can hit is no different than if you're oh, about 5 miles from a few different towers.
You REALLY ought to read up on this a bit. Surely you've heard about the FCC studies?
You're really stretching it now.
Actually, the cell phone "receivers" they plan on installing will trap the signals, keeping them from hitting the towers on the ground. The purpose is solely that of allowing the user to be billed for using his cell on the plane in place of using the airphone.
Please, before you make a bigger fool of yourself, go study up a bit.
You sure don't know much about RF energy do you Gary?
Yes, that and 40 plus years of hands on Amateur Radio operation.
You don't suppose that Industry Canada allows me to test and inspect people to allow them to be issued with an Amateur Radio License if I knew nothing about radio theory and practical aspects of it do you?...
Of course I'm not. I flew as a Flight Engineer on ASW bombers for
26 years (13,000 hours of flight time logged). I knew the electronics systems of them thoroughly.
Oh, don't be so silly for cripes sakes...how does one go about "Trapping RF energy"
So how do they limit the effects of 'raising the antenna'?
Believe me, 'raising the antenna' WILL extend the radio's range, despite what you say.
I'll excuse that due to your obvious misinformation.
The mobile phone constantly communicates with the cell system even when you are not using the phone. It communicates with the nearest tower (cell) and from this the system knows where you are and can transfer calls to and from that cell to your phone. When you are on the move you are going from cell to cell and the communication is switched from cell to cell. The current term "cell", came from when central London was mapped out in "cells" in
The reference was to the future. The FCC doesn't want to allow Cell calls in planes until such time that they can be fitted, each with their own cell, so that all phones on the plane would point to IT instead of the ones on the ground. That way, AirPhone or a lower bidding competitor, would be able to bill the callers.
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