changing antifreeze

My Opinion: If it's really nice soft spring water - no dissolved solids, no iron, no minerals - go ahead and use it with the coolant in the radiator. This covers maybe 2% of the population.

For people living in the other 98% of the world where the tap or well water has enough iron in it to leave rust stains, or downright "Crunchy" with minerals, use either bottled distilled or demineralized water to mix with the coolant if you want to get a bit more life out of the car. That way you don't add any mystery metals and minerals to the mix.

Distilled is most expensive and is really only needed for topping off lead-acid wet batteries where any contamination can be really bad news. If you have a reasonably priced source, use it for the radiator fill also.

They used to sell little resin-bed demineralization filters you hooked to a garden hose, but there was never a way to tell when it was used up and no longer effective.

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Bruce L. Bergman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Distilled is expensive? Not these days.

I can buy a gallon for a couple of bucks at the grocery store. I can get five gallons for five bucks.

You should ALWAYS use distilled or de-ionized water when filling a cooling system. Unless you're using premix of course, which is already mixed with distilled/de-i.

"badgolferman" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.readfreenews.net:

Not a good idea. That's what leads to those crusty white deposits that clog your rad. In the real world, almost nobody (even those on lake water) has water that's reliably soft enough for cooling systems.

Go to the grocery store and get some distilled/de-ionized water. The stuff is cheap as anything, now that every grocery store sells the stuff.

I dont use regular water even on my windshield washer.

Although my well-respected radiator shop uses tap water, which is damn hard around here, and swears that the chemicals in the antifreeze bind the minerals in the water and prevent them from being deposited anywhere in the cooling system. Apparently the "no tap water" precaution was well founded fifty years ago but is no longer applicable.

Smitty Two wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.phx.highwinds-media.com:

I'd like to see proof of the "binding" thing. Toyota still prefers that you use distilled or demineralized water.

How do you get the tap water out when flushing the block? Or do you flush with distilled?

The minute trace minerals added to distilled "drinking water" can leave a white powder coating on rubber parts inside. Probably no big deal. But tap water is loaded with that stuff. I'll say use only distilled water with no minerals added "for taste". So do read the fine print.

The newer Toyota Pink coolant, which uses a major component from the GM Dexcool longlife coolant, is already prediluted. You can only flush such a system with pink coolant as suggested in the manual. Otherwise you'll get less than 50% concentration!!

This Pink coolant lacks the 2EHA acid, which is a plasticier. It's not a problem with newer US and European cooling systems designs, but just don't convert the Toyota system to Dexcool, even though some people who used it said it was ok. The Pink is supposed to last longer than the Red, but the Red is the better corrosion fighter.

"badgolferman" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.readfreenews.net:

When I flush, I just use the garden hose. With the block and rad drains removed, just about all the tap water drains out. Any that's left is not sufficient in volume to affect anything.

Water pump housing, bottom of water jacket, all other collection points combined, I'd say there's no more than a cup of tap water left behind after draining.

How do I remove the block drain? I have a 97 Camry 4 and a 2000 Sienna I want to do this weekend.

"badgolferman" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.readfreenews.net:

'97 Camry: Block drain is at REAR of block, immediately above the woven exhaust flex pipe. I think it's a 14 or 15mm hex.

'00 Sienna: TWO block drains, both at the rear of the block.

Tighten to 9 ft lbs only.

Check your email.

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news:1191020373.123170.75830 @y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com:

That's true in a very precise sense, but if you remove the block drain(s) as well as the rad drain (and a few more if you've got an MR2), the amount of leftover plain water won't be enough to matter.

The pink stuff is only supposed to be used in those particular very late- model vehicles that originally came with it. Your Owner's Manual will say. All other cars should stay with the red stuff.

Perhaps your "well-respected" radiator shop is simply trying to guarantee that its customers will be back sooner rather than later, needing repairs to their cars' cooling systems?

I'm going to look into this a little more. It really is the best shop in town, and I have the utmost regard for them. The guy just sort of shook his head at me when I brought in my own bottle distilled water for them to use on my car. Seems like a weary debate he keeps having with many people. For the moment, I'm willing to believe that "old information" dies a hard death.