Engine rust during non-use (Synthetic oil versus conventional)

Hi again, gang. Time for another oil change soon, which, as usual, raises new questions in my mind.

Some of you may remember that I drive very little, since I usually choose to walk the short distance to work everyday. So there are some weeks, I may not start my lovely and lovable '06 silver Camry LE for

3 or more days. Shucks, one week this past summer, I didn't drive it anywhere or start the engine for 6 or 7 days.

This leads to a question about rust protection.

I found the following Q-and-A on the Mobil1.com web site:

Question:

Protecting An Infrequently Used Engine

"I use my Porsche infrequently. Will Mobil 1 drain away from the parts more quickly and therefore potentially leave them "dry" when I re- start the engine. Is there anything I can do to minimize this problem?

-- Mike Hughes, Felixstowe

Mobil 1's Answer:

Any motor oil is going to drain off the internal components of your engine when it is shut off. It is not likely that the components will be completely dry, but after an extended time the amount of oil residue may not provide the necessary protection to avoid rusting and also may not provide enough lubricity for start-up.

### [Well, this applies to my Camry's situation, and I don't want my sweet little Camry's engine to begin rusting by only starting it once every

3 or 4 days. The answer above does not say how long "extended time" is.] ###

The answer continues:

Mobil 1 will provide maximum protection and will flow much more quickly than conventional oil to all the engine components when the engine is started.

### [This is certainly true, but my guess is that conventional oil might leave more of a residue (and thus provide more rust protection) to the engine's parts during a 3 or 4-day no-starting lay-over? As much as I love synthetic, I'm concerned it doesn't "stick" to engine parts over

3 or 4 days as well as dino oil.] ###

Mobil 1's answer ends:

We suggest you review with your Porsche dealer how often you should start and drive your vehicle to assure good protection for your vehicle's lubricated components.

Reply to
Built_Well
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Uh...Ain't the camry engine aluminum? They will corrode, but shouldn't rust. I don't see how this applies to the camry if indeed it's an aluminum engine.

Sounds like Mobil 1 propaganda to me.. Except for real cold areas , I don't see how it would matter. The oil weight ratings will determine how well it flows when cold. There can be an advantage to synth oil in super cold areas though. In most normal weather, a dino oil 5w-30 should flow at about the same rate when cold as a synth oil 5w-30.

As much as

I don't think it would make too much of a difference. As far as cold startups after a few days, probably not a whole lot of difference either. If you don't notice any extra valve noise, tapping, etc when cold starting, I doubt it's a problem. I don't notice any on mine when it's sat for a while. There is one easy way you can prime the system if you want to make sure the oil is circulated a bit before it fires up.. Just get a extra key with no transponder. You can crank the engine a few times to get the oil flowing a bit before starting. Then stick the other key back in and crank it up. I do this when I change my oil to keep from having a semi dry start. Seems to work. I get no more valve noise after changing my oil, as with any other start.

I don't think it's going to be an issue unless you park in a swamp. BTW, I've been using the "syntec" blend... Cheaper than Mobil 1.. Get some of the advantages of synth oil, at a good bit lower price. And being I change every 5k no matter what, it's not really that critical. MK

Reply to
nm5k

Engine rust is the last thing to wreck an engine. The way I see it is that your cars body or under chassis will rust first before the inside of your engine does.

Reply to
EdV

The muffler would probably be the first to rust and destroy itself, but that won't likely happen for a decade or two. As for the engine, internally, not a problem in my view. Forget it.

>
Reply to
mack

Acually, it doesn't make a bit of difference. There is already oil in oil pump. All it does it adds more wear and tear on your starter.

That's because the oil system is already primed when you finish adding the oil.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

From a Tecumseh Sno-King manual (if you're really worried about it!:)

II. Oil Cylinder Bore When lubricating cylinder bore, fuel ! WARNING may spray from spark plug hole. To prevent serious injury from fuel fires, follow these instructions:

  1. Disconnect spark plug wire and keep it away from spark plug. See "G. Avoid Accidental Starts" instruc- tions on page 2. See Figures 22 and 23. ? Keep the disconnected spark plug wire securely away from metal parts where arcing could occur. ? Attach the spark plug wire to the grounding post, if provided. ? Disconnect battery at negative terminal first, if engine is equipped with an electric starter. ? Turn off all engine switches. ? Remove ignition key, if provided.
  2. Remove spark plug.
  3. Squirt 1oz. (30ml) of clean engine oil into spark plug hole.
  4. Cover spark plug hole with rag to prevent fuel from spraying from spark plug hole when starter rope is pulled. NOTES For engines equipped with recoil starters proceed to Step 5. For engines equipped with electric starters proceed to Step
  5. Grasp starter cord handle and pull out slowly using a full arm stroke. Repeat once. (This will distribute oil throughout the cylinder to prevent corrosion during storage.)
  6. Install spark plug.
  7. Carefully disconnect spark plug wire from grounding post, if provided.
  8. Connect spark plug wire before attempting to start engine.
Reply to
Hachiroku

=== Lucas Synthetic oil stabilizer mixed 20% with Mobil 1 synthetic oil will prevent dry starts

Reply to
Daniel

It will also be a waste of money. I would doubt there is significantly less engine oil on the moving parts after leaving a engine off for a week vs an hour without the engine running.

I have taken apart hundreds of engines. They all had oil on their bearing surfaces, even if they sat around for a few weeks before they were brought in.

You're wasting time and money if you do anything special before starting a car that has sat only a week or two.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

In most normal weather, a dino oil 5w-30

False : Mobil 1 synthetic will NOT thicken until ambient reaches -45*F Its opn the container.

Reply to
mred

Rather than go to all that trouble ? go to a motorcycle shop and get the cylinder rust inhibitor that is sprayed into the engines cylinders to prevent rust when a motorcycle is "winterized" for 3-5 months a year.This stuff last a long time

Reply to
mred

========

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Enough regular oil remains on the engine components to be protective, even after sitting for days or a week. But is the same true with super slickery synthetic oil? I'm not sure the synth is as protective over a week or 4 days.

Reply to
Built_Well

Yes.

It is.

If you don't believe me, take some synthetic oil and convential oil, and dip some metal parts (forks, knives, soda cans, whatever). Put the metal parts on a plactic bag or whatever and cover. come back in a week. See if the metal parts still have protective oil on them.

There is no reason to think that a protective film of oil won't stay on metal parts regardless of whether the oil is synthetic or conventional.

And if you think about the bearing surfaces, the oil doesn't just drip into the oil pan, but it would have to really make its way out of the bearing surface.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

On Aug 20, 12:33 pm, Jeff wrote:

There is oil in the pump, but not much is circulated through the engine, valves, etc.. My engine is fairly dry after an oil change as I let it drain for quite a long time to get as much dirt out as I can.

I disagree here. If that was the case, all the cars I've changed oil on, "many", would all start with no valve noise. But all the others do, at least for a few seconds. The corolla is the only car I've tried "priming" the oil system after an oil change, and it's the only car that starts with no valve clatter whatsoever after an oil change. All my other vehicles clatter for a few seconds if not primed. Heck, when I rebuilt the engine in one of my trucks I had to prime the system in pretty much the same way. Just filling the pan with oil is not going to prime the whole system. Thats why I had to rig up a drill motor and prime the system until oil was flowing from the rockers. Go ask any engine rebuilder if he would start a rebuilt engine without priming the oil system first. I bet few omit that step, and rely only on the oil in the pan to "prime" the system. Now, I agree, there is no requirement to prime the system after an oil change, and any difference in wear would be small, but I still like avoiding a dry start. Any wear on the starter is going to be pretty low, as it doesn't take too much to do the job. I also don't let it crank very long at a time. 2-3 "normal length" cranks, and that's it. Then I stick the transponder key back in, and crank it up and check for leaks. You can change the oil in one of my trucks, and if the system is not primed, which I rarely do on those, the engine clatters for a few seconds until pressure is built up. Ditto for my honda accord. Also, the anti-drainback valve in the filter is super critical for the ford six cyl engines I have in both trucks. You never want to use an "orange" Fram filter on those engines. Ever! The filter sits sideways onto the engine, and drains easily. I tried one once, and it was horrible. Let the truck sit for two days, and it would clatter until the pressure built up, and one time, it took a good while to build up. Scared me to death. I though my oil pump went south..I yanked that filter off and used a motorcraft FL1A, and the problem was gone. I knew about that problem before I stuck the fram on there, but decided to try it for myself, as I got one free with a bunch of parts, etc. Sure nuff, it was an instant disaster. After that, I use nothing but the motorcraft filters. They have good anti drain valves. MK

Reply to
nm5k

On Aug 20, 4:03 pm, mred wrote:0

Isn't that what I just said? 45 below zero is *not* normal weather.. That would qualify as a super cold area. Or to me anyway. What part of the first paragraph I wrote did you not understand? MK

Reply to
nm5k

Jeff wrote: "....take some synthetic oil and convential oil, and dip some metal parts (forks, knives, soda cans, whatever)." ========

Thanks for that great idea. I will try your experiment.

Reply to
Built_Well

=== Here's a better and simpler experiment. Observe the oil dipstick without wiping clean. That will show how much splashed oil remains over time.

Reply to
Daniel

Of course not, the oil pump is not turning when you change the oil.

And any oil the drains out of the oil pump will be replace when you fill the oil back up.

If you say something intelligent, I will respond to you. Until then, bye bye

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

I've been reading all these replies, and although most (if not all) of responders have YEARS more experience than I with rebuilding and working on engines, I can have that there is one area where I am an "expert".

For over 20 years I was in the Navy. Over half that time I was on ships that made extended deployments (normal "6 month cruises" normally became 9 months). For these deployments, all I ever did was make sure that I had an oil change within a month of the deployment, and fill up the gas tank (could never be TOO sure on the cost or availability of fuel on return), then would park the car in the large "secure" parking lot and remove the positive cable from my battery. On return, reconnect the battery cable and drive away. Never any problem with premature death of the engines.

Granted, I was never concerned about the engine rusting (or even thought about it).

John H.

Reply to
news.west.earthlink.net

No kidding....

No kidding... I'm not concerned with the pump... I'm concerned about the rest of the system being primed, so I don't have to wait 2-3 or more seconds for the pressure to build up and kill the valve clatter and the oil light.

What garbage? Are you saying most engine installers don't prime the oil system before starting? Not any that I know... I've never seen a single one just dump oil in the pan and crank it up. Now, I realize that doing this with an oil change is not required, but I like instant oil pressure to the valve train on the first startup, instead of waiting a few seconds for it for it to build up while the oil is filling the filter and being pumped through the system. This is just a personal preference. It's not like I'm suggesting everyone do this.

I don't need you to respond to me. It's not going to change anything I'm doing. I don't even think you really "get" why I'm doing what I'm doing.. Sure doesn't seem like it anyway. Even if you do "get" it, you haven't made any intelligent points as to why it's a bad idea. All you've done is spout "garbage" and "bye bye" with no explanation behind your view. None the less, I could care less. I have more important things to worry about. MK

Reply to
nm5k

Any collector will tell you to keep a vehicle in good running condition, follow the "thirty thirty" rule. Run the vehicle a least every thirty days, for thirty miles and operate all of its electrical equipment, windows, seats, heater etc. I have always followed that rule. My oldest collector car is a 1941 and the newest a 1983, all are in great shape

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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