excessive oil consumption?

My 95 Geo Prizm/95' Corolla only burns about a quart every 3000 miles at

160K/mi. I think you probably have something wrong. What it is, I can't tell you.

ps:I run with 10w30 oil.

"JoelM" wrote in news:dhfRh.6272$ snipped-for-privacy@news02.roc.ny:

Shit no. My car drinks a LOT of oil and I'm at 1500 miles per quart. That's with 285,000 on the clock, mind you.

Very unlikely. 20W-50 might help, but would quickly make the problem worse.

Changing the rings would help more. You need an engine rebuild.

What's the car's history?

It probably will, but a set of rings will do more to make it run a lot longer.

mike

Mike, Any idea what a new set of rings would run. The car belongs to my daughter and is selling it soon.

J

Unless maintenance has been severely neglected I seriously doubt he needs an engine rebuild. These engines will last a lot longer with normal maintenance and use.

RT wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Then how do you account for the OP's oil consumption? No leaks and no smoke, remember...

And you know for sure this motor has been the beneficiary of that "normal maintenance and use"?

"JoelM" wrote in news:tSgRh.6286$ snipped-for-privacy@news02.roc.ny:

Oh, about two grand.

Well if she's gonna unload the car anyway, don't do anything and let the new owner deal with the problem. So long as the pink slip can be transferred, what's the worry?

Your daughter has a strong constitution and can sleep at night even though she knows she's sold a pig-in-a-poke, no?

have to add a quart of the recommened 5w-30 about

with this much mileage. Would changing to a higher

You should have someone look at it to see whats up with the oil consumption and make sure car is running ok. But if its is just a normal wear related thing like say pistion rings then it may be almost a non issue. At least for now because engine wear from usage is almost nothing anyway.

For example I have a 4 cylinder Toyota C&C work truck that I work so hard it only gets about 12 mpg. It burns one quart of oil (& tank of gas) every 200 miles.

That was when I bought it at 60,000 miles. Now it has 200,000 miles on it and has never even failed a smog (california) check. Come to think of it even the catalystic converter is original. That engine spends its whole life WFO at max RPM and the oil consumption is just not an issue for me or it.

Remind's me #2, My Mazda RX7 rotory had two oil pumps. The second one pumped motor oil thru tubes up to and directly in to the float bowl of the carb to mix with the gas. That car had a "low oil" and "red line" buzzer that I used to hear all the time. It still ran great when I sold it at 200,000 too.

Dan

The car was purchased with 78.000 miles 19 months ago. I ran a carfax on it and it sems to have been maintained normally. Though who knows for sure. Since my daughter had it, it had the oil replaced every 3 - 4000 miles and had a 90,000 mile service at about 100,000 miles. It did not use much if any oil after purchase.

Joel

A quart every 500 miles is excessive. Are you sure there are no leaks? Are you sure there is no smoke - especially when the engine is cold? Have you had the PCV system checked? Have you ever overheated the engine?

If it was my vehicle, I'd do the following:

1 - check the PCV system 2 - verify there are no leaks - sometimes you can have a leak that only manifests inself when the engine is running. Place a large white sheet of cardboard on the ground under the engine and transmission and allow it to run for ten or fifteen minutes. 3 - have the engine compression tested 4 - If the compression is good, I'd have a mechanic pull the head and do a valve job.

All engines consume oil. Some more than others. Engines that don't appear to be consuming oil are just making up the lost oil with condensed blow by gases (water, unburned hydrocarbons, soot, etc.). Until the catalytic convertor fails due to contamination, it will "burn up" any oil in the exhaust and prevent the car from smoking. However, the catalytic convertor only does this after it warms up. That is why I asked if you see any oil smoke when the engine is cold.

Ed

I don't notice any smoke, even when cold. It had a small leak a few month ago and had the crankshaft seal replaced. I would hope the the 90,000 mile sevice would have replaced/serviced the PCV. I'll have to check the paper work when my daughter returns home Sunday.

Joel

Sell it for less than the actual value. I used to do it all the time. Anything under $700 in Mass is not warrantied. Buyer beware.

As long as it passes inspection, it's a deal!

I drive a 2001 CE which is a 3 speed. I currently have ~120,000 miles on it.

I have had exactly the same symptoms for 45,000 miles now. No smoke even at startup. Every other fill up I have to dump in a quart of oil.

At ~ 75,000 I cleaned the pcv valve because it was gummed up. You can clean them but its only a $15 part. However, this did not stop the oil burning.

At ~ 100,000 miles I replaced the spark plugs. They did not show signs of oil fouling.

I have tried a few oil additves to try to clean stuck valves or whatever else they claimed. Nothing helped. I am currently trying Auto-rx and I have not seen an improvement.

I have been considering a valve job. Not sure if this makes sense though. The car is also showing a p0420 check engine code. This code means that the catalytic converter is running below threshold. From what I have been told this could mean that the catalytic converter needs to be replaced (~$1200) or that the O2 sensor after the converter is not running properly (~$200). What may have happened is that the burning oil ruined the catalytic converter or the sensor. Therefore, it makes no sense to get either item replaced since the oil is still getting burned and would ruin the new components as well. The point is that after the valve job which may/may not work I would still need to dump more $$ into the car to get the exhaust system fixed.

If you get the valve job done please post and let us know the results.

I have found that the forum at corolland has a lot of very helpful pe> I don't notice any smoke, even when cold. It had a small leak a few month

Technical Service Bulletin EG 028-04 addresses diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0420 on 2003 and 2004 Corollas with the 1ZZ-FE engine. I did not find a bulletin that pertains to 2001 Corollas with this condition or for oil consumption. You can ask your local Toyota dealer what they recommend to fix both conditions.

A Corolla I assume? And is it really a 3 speed?

I guessing that you are adding a quart of oil every 500 to 700 miles. This is high, but not so high that it would result in smoking. And despite what some people claim, all cars consume oil. See

for my thoughts on this.

Did you make sure the entire PCV system was open? The PCV valve meters air from the crankcase into the intake system. You need to make sure all the lines in the system are open (PCV to intake lines and the lines that provide fresh air from the outside world into the crankcase).

If you are only using a quart every 500 to 700 miles, I would not expect plug fouling as long as the usage is spread over all the cylinders.

Probably a waste of money. Have you removed the valve cover to have a look-see? Why do you think you have stuck valves? Stuck valves would result in poor performance (missing, etc.).

If the car has consistently been using a quart of oil every 500-700 miles for 45,000 miles, it is conceivable that this has damaged the catalytic converter (especially if you used the wrong type of oil), but I doubt it. It seems more likely to me that the snake oil you have dumped into the engine is responsible. Before I replaced the converter, I'd have the after-cat O2 sensor checked.

I'd recommend against just blindly doing a valve job. And I definitely wouldn't just tell a shop I wanted a valve job. If you are trying to address oil consumption, you would probably just need valve guide seals, not a complete valve job and I don't think you need either. Here is what I would do:

1) Carefully check the oil level to verify oil consumption. Do it in the morning everyday for a while to verify that you really are using a quart every 500 to 700 miles. 2) Check the condition of the coolant to make sure that oil isn't leaking into the cooling system. 3) Verify that the oil is not leaking out. Just because you don't see a spot where you park doesn't mean that the oil isn't leaking. Look under the car for signs of oily spots. 4) Verify that your problem is not related to oil sludge. You can check for sludge by removing the valve cover. If your car is a Corolla, it does not have one of the supposedly sludge prone engines. However, if the car has been poorly maintained it could still suffer from sludge build-up. 5) Try one of the high mileage oils (Valvoline MaxLife is one brand, there are others). 6) If you cannot live with moderate oil consumption, pay an experienced mechanic to diagnose the problem. Since you don't see any smoke at start-up, I doubt the valve seals or guides are your problem. It is far more likely that you have a leak, or worn oil control rings. If you have been using ...hmmmm... cheap oil, it is even possible that the oil control rings are stuck. But since you have already tried the miracle products to loosen them, I doubt this is the case.

If it was my car, and the oil consumption isn't any worse than a quart every 500 to 700 miles, I probably wouldn't do anything expensive (assuming I didn't have the sludge problem). If you drive the car another 60,000 miles, the additional cost for oil will be less than $250. There is no way you are going to have the valve seals replaced for $250. BTW, Toyota considers 1 quart per 1000 miles to be acceptable for a car under warranty, so 1 quart per 500 miles for a 6 year old car with 120,000 miles doesn't seem that bad.

Ed

Thanks for your advice.

Yes the 2001 Corolla is a 3 speed.

I've noticed with my 2002 Corolla and long road trips that if I go over 80MPH, it consumes oil. If I keep under 80MPH, it does not consume oil. At least, I keep it under 80 now and I never have had any oil consumption issues. Only thing I changed was not driving

90Mph when I make long road trips... helped quite a bit. I too have never smoked or had fouled plugs or shown signs of leaking oil either.

Actually your car is using oil whether you are driving over 80 or under 80. When you are driving under 80, the oil doesn't get hot enough to boil off the "stuff" that escapes past the piston rings. You cannot assume your car doesn't use oil just because the level in your crankcase stays the same. I have one older farm tractor that actually increases the "oil level" as long as you don't work it too hard. If you really put the pedal to the metal, it will show significant oil usage. See

Ed

I should have been more clear. You're correct. The oil consumption was so bad at 80MPH+ that after a 7 hour drive, I had to put oil into the car. Under 80MPH, I didn't have to add oil at all.

Sorry for not being clear the first time. :-)