Fords profit!

If you will poke around on the Internet, you'll find this is a common complaint about Toyotas. I know there have been Toyota Technical Service Bulletins issued for this concern. Ray O can probably shed more light on it than me.

The smell is a result of the catalytic converter creating hydrogen sulfide. Small amounts of sulfur are often in gasoline. The emission control systems for some cars tend to convert this into hydrogen sulfide, which stinks. Others convert it into sulfuric acid, which doesn't smell, but eats up exhaust systems. It is not just Toyota that has this problem, but they seem to have it more often than most other manufacturers. Maybe Ray O knows why this is the case (probably catalyst type, and temperature of the exhaust). And if you get fuel with too much sulfur, almost any car will emit hydrogen sulfide. If you regularly get the bad smell, I'd suggest switching brands of gas (although in Fayetteville, it is likely all the gas comes from only one or two sources and the only difference in the gas is the secret sauce added at the distributor). The sulfur content of all gas should be reduced over time, but mistakes are made (Shell got hammered for selling high sulfur gasoline in the Louisiana recently).

From

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Sulfur dioxide (SO2) is sometimes created during the combustion process from the small amount of sulfur present in gasoline. During certain conditions the catalyst oxidizes sulfur dioxide to make SO3, which reacts with water to make H2SO4 or sulfuric acid. Finally when sulfur and hydrogen react, it forms hydrogen sulfide gas. This process creates the rotten egg odor you sometimes smell when following vehicles on the highway.....

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Excerpt from TSB EG003-03, Titled SULFUR ODOR FROM EXHAUST:

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Some owners of Toyota vehicles may experience a sulfur-like or "rotten egg" odor from the exhaust system. Sulfur is a natural component of crude oil from which gasoline is refined and the amount of sulfur can be decreased through the refining process. The amount of sulfur in fuel sold in California is regulated, however gasoline sold in other states can have substantially higher sulfur content. Sulfur content also varies considerably between gasoline brands and locations.

A sulfur odor emitted from the vehicle's tailpipe does not necessarily indicate that there is an issue with the engine's running condition, but is most likely directly related to the fuel. If the vehicle is exhibiting an excessive sulfur odor, the following checks should be performed:

If the MIL light is ON, check for DTCs and repair as necessary.

If no trouble is found after performing the above check, recommend the customer try a different source of fuel. Replacement of oxygen sensors, air/fuel ratio sensors or catalytic converters will not reduce the odor and will therefore not be considered warrantable.

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From

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Cat odor. Toyota is taking a different approach to complaints from customers regarding the rotten-egg smell that can sometimes spew from a vehicle's exhaust. While some manufacturers recommend replacing the catalytic converter as a solution to the problem, the Japanese maker is steadfast in its belief that a foul-smelling cat isn't necessarily abnormal, nor damaging to the vehicle or the persons in it. Toyota bases its theory on the fact that cat odors are typically due, in direct proportion, to the amount of sulfur present in the fuel. The higher the sulfur content, the greater the likelihood of a foul smell coming out the exhaust. And vice versa. As long as the MIL isn't illuminated and no DTCs are stored, Toyota suggests explaining to the customer that the sulfur smell is normal and no cause for alarm. Recommending that he switch to different fuel brands can often help, too, points out Toyota.

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See also:

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Ed

Reply to
C. E. White
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I've never had this happen; and am glad I haven't. ;-)

Cathy

Reply to
Cathy F.

When did I say that? I think that some people believe that Toyotas are far more reliable than domestic vehicles and I don't believe this is true. I think some people blindly defend Toyotas and take any suggestion by me that Toyotas are less than perfect as a personal insult. I don't mean it to be, but I don't see why I can't express my opinions about Toyotas, good or bad.

from your 7/27/2007, 6:50 pm message:

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EXACTLY

Natalie

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You might not have brought up the Ford Explorer "flipping" issue, but you certainly piled on.

So the worst thing I said about Toyotas was that people have to much faith in them? It was just an opinion. I certainly didn't mean to insult you. However, I do think a lot of people who buy Toyotas are too "faithful." There are a lot of Ford, Chevrolet, and Chrysler owners that are too "faithful" as well. I don't know about you personally, but I know several people who won't even look at another brand of car (insert a random brand here). I've owned more Fords than any other single brand, but whenever I purchase a new vehicle, I consider many brands. My current truck is a Nissan. I considered a Toyota, but the Tacomas were over priced, and the Tundras all seemed to suffer from piston slap (3 out of 3 that I test drove), and they were over priced as well. In retrospect, I should have priced a Tacoma at a dealer far away from Raleigh. Apparently all the Raleigh area dealers studied at the same school. I am not "delighted" with the Nissan, but at least for the moment it is OK. It has been recalled twice, and in the shop twice more for minor problems. That is more than my last three Fords combined. If I was buying today, I'd try harder to negotiate a decent price on a Tacoma. If I couldn't get an acceptable price, I'd just get a Ford F250. If I am going to get a big truck, and pay a big truck price, I want a real one.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Same thing in my car. But the odor is not from the car's exhaust.

It's from my nephew's.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

AFIK sulphur content in the US is federally regulated at 30PPM. here in ontario the sulphur content is 300 PPm and I have yet to experience the sulphur smell form my cat.(`02camry -4 auto) mred

Reply to
mred

Gee, I hope your cat doesn't drink gasoline. Just keep her milk bowl away from the gasoline, to be safe. ;-)

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

"C. E. White" ...

*snipping great info for brevity*

WOW thanks - I can't remember anyone knowing why, even though I mentioned it here.

You're right - all of Fayetteville's gas is from the same source - not even two of them.

:-P

The good news is that since Wal-Mart started selling gas around here, all the others have to be competitive. Usually they're only within a cent or two of Wal-Mart's rock-bottom prices. (you get another 3 cents off per gallon, if you buy it with a gift card) I think they do that because they figure if you got inside to get the card, you'll probably buy something else, but that's just a guess.

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll®

"C. E. White" ...

But you don't stop with pointing out what's wrong with Toys, you also imply we're stupid to buy them. I no longer have any of the more hostile posts you've made, but I will say you're way more reasonable than most non-Toyota fans.

Fair enough.

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll®

"Jeff" ...

LOL you nut.

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll®

"C. E. White" :

OK, Jeff, no more pot for you.

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll®

Yup - Unless you're in a larger town where there's a nexus of pipelines, there's usually only one pipeline going through any given region, and they tap off it and put a little tank farm every few hundred miles.

The tanks store generic regular & premium gasoline and #2 Distillate fuel oil (AKA Diesel Fuel). For gasoline they add the right detergent additive "secret sauce" for the station brand as they fill the tank truck from the racks, and for "Off-Road" (no Road Use Tax) Diesel Fuel or heating oil they add in the red dye.

And you don't want the cops to see any hint of red in your highway truck fuel tank if they dip out a sample - they get /really/ annoyed if they think you're evading taxes.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

LOL you guys are a font of useless information.

:-)

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll®

I once asked one of the Japanese engineers about the sulfur odor in Japanese, and got a chemistry explanation in Japanese that was way over my Japanese vocabulary (I was born and raised in the U.S.). The gist that I got was that it was due to sulfur in the fuel. In most cases, changing brands of fuel fixes the problem.

Reply to
Ray O

I don't know how much you drive, but I don't see how the typical car owner can save hundreds a year in preventative maintenance when it doesn't cost that much in the first place, even with 30K and 60K maintenance amortized into the annual average.

You don't happen to have sold fords, have you?

Reply to
manny

I hope he works out better than the outsiders from GE did at Home Depot and 3M. What does an airplane maker know about making cars?

Reply to
manny

"Ray O"

Well then I'm screwed. They're all from the same tank.

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll®

I agree. There are 4 newer (2003-2005) Toyotas in my immediate family, and none of them have that odor because they all use high quality fuels.

I have heard that some Hondas are also prone to that problem if fuel with high sulfur content is used. It's just something with newer catalytic converters.

Reply to
High Tech Misfit

You must be fairly new here. Please don't feed the trolls.

Reply to
High Tech Misfit

He is not an airplane maker. Do you think he was ever on the factory floor with a ratchet?

There are a lot of similarities between making airplanes and making cars. For example, there is a supply chain, marketing, factories, unionized workers, quality control issues.

There are a lot of differences, too.

The question is whether or not his success at Boeing will help him be successful at Ford.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Not necessarily - there are still federal and state regulations about the sulfur content of all gas and diesel sold. Whoever is refining the fuel that is going into that pipeline at the other end obviously isn't meeting the requirements.

Call your local gas station and/or the regional pipeline operator. and raise a little stink about their stinky fuel. Toss a rotten egg in their front door if necessary... ;-)

If they are responsible it won't take much encouragement to get them to trace their fuel suppliers for the period in question, and get that refinery to clean up their output. ("You don't meet the requirements, we won't accept your fuel because your output contaminates the entire pipeline system" should be enough.)

And if that gets you a load of BS, you can call the EPA and get them involved. They can't just blow off the Feds, they have search warrants and can levy huge fines if they try.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

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