How did Toyota do that?

IIRC, the Scion tC AT doesn't even have a dipstick.

The manual for the '06 Camry 4-cylinder with 5-speed A/T says the same thing.

From Page 337:

Change automatic transmission fluid only as necessary.

Generally, it is necessary to change automatic transmission fluid /only/ if your vehicle is driven under one of the Special Operating Conditions listed in your Scheduled Maintenance Guide or Owner's Manual Supplement.

The Special Operating Conditions listed in the Scheduled Maintenance Guide are:

Driving in desert or on dirt roads.

Driving while towing.

Says the same for the 05 corolla.. But I'm going to ignore it and change it every once in a while. The pan has a drain so it's easy to change part of the fluid. I don't think it would get it all, but if you do that every once in a while, it should stay pretty clean. I may change mine this oil change, which is just now due.. The light started flashing today for that.. I think I'm going to drain the ATF and refill while I'm changing the oil. Mine doesn't look too dirty, but it's rolled over 38k, and I think about due for a ATF fluid swap. This will be my third oil change since about April.. Been racking the miles up. Over 14k since early March. MK

Old stuff. BMW has 100K ATF fluid.

IMO, not a good idea. I change ours every 40K. Expensive at 27 bucks a quart, but worth it.

Our favorite book "Auto Upkeep" says to change the ATF and filter every 2 years, 24,000 miles, or as recommended by the manual.

Expensive YES but worth it, I doubt it. Do you think the manufacturer is going to recommend something that will result in damage to the car? Do you think you know more about your car than the people who designed and built it?

Jack

This might be news for Toyotas, but it isn't different from millions of other vehicles. My Father never had the automatic transmission fluid changed in anything he owned, and never had a transmission fail either except for one. I managed to kill a C4 in an old Fairlane....this may have had something to do with running the car into a pond (don't tell Dad) .......

The problem I see here is the wording......"under normal conditions." Given Toyota's notoriously bad Customer Service, what are the chances that they will blame you if your transmission prematurely fails down the road and you can't produce notarized, signed in blood receipts from a Toyota Dealer in Japan proving you had the transmission fluid changed every 30K miles......

I am planning on draining the fluid from the transmission pan of my SO's RAV4 every 30K miles and adding that much fresh fluid. I know that won't change the fluid in the torque converter, but I figure renewing part of the fluid regularly will be a good thing. I'll buy the fluid at the Toyota dealer. Hopefully I can use those receipt to fight off the Toyota Goons if the transmission fails prematurely.

Ed

I have but two words to say to that: "Planned obsolescence."

Charles the Curmudgeon.

Thanks, I again (after 3k miles) started checking my oil and ATF since the snow came in. I'm in 18k miles and my next service is 20k miles, I'm thinking...again... if I should ignore or change. The cars going to be 2 years in May 2008. The ATF is still good the way I see it, red colored, correct fluid level,no burnt odor. I dont tow or drive in desert or dirt roads. So I consider my condition as just normal.

When you pull the trans dip stick look for the stamping indicating the type of fluid. The new ones are usually "W/S" (world standard).

Toyota says that it never needs to be changed, but Toyota is the only manufacturer I've see with a drain plug on the pan.

Even using the best filters, all drive (hydraulic) fluids will eventually break down chemically from the normal heating and cooling cycles, and mechanical movement (cut) causing friction and more heat. They tend to loose viscosity, anti-foam, and lubricating qualities, and I'm sure a few more.

W/S fluid is rather expensive (about thirty five to forty bucks a gallon), but fluid is usually a lot cheaper than transmissions.

It is easy to do. 14mm wrench, drain fluid out, replace with 3 quarts of fluid, Toyota is best, but Castrol makes an equivalent for about seven bucks a quart. Changing the fluid is easier and cheaper than changing the transmission due to a fluid failure IMHO.

That was what I was thinking, oil is oil and will still degrade overtime. I just don't know what mileage should I change? Not to early, not to late. So I check under the hood but not religiously. This is only my 2nd car with A/T. On my RAV 4 I followed the owners manual and changed 40k. But now If I follow my manual its never.

Even BMW factory and independent mechanics don't agree with the 100K change UNLESS you don't plan on keeping the car past 75K or so.

I'll defer to them rather than a usenet expert any day.

My Frontier has a drain plug on the pan. Some Fords do. I suppose if you are going to change the filter (screen), then you are going to have to remove the pan either way, so why include a plug? My Frontier doesn't have a replaceable filter, so removing the pan is not necessary. Fords used to include drain plugs on the torque converter. That was a nice feature, since there is more fluid in the converter than the pan. Lately they have dropped that feature and recommend the use of a fluid exchange machine instead.

My Nissan doesn't have a replaceable filter. I tried to buy one......the parts department said there is a screen in the transmission, but you can only change it by disassembling the transmission.....

I agree. The 6 Speed Automatic in my Ford Fusion is a member of the same AW Transmission Family as the Camry 6 Speed. Ford calls for a special fluid for this transmission (XT-8-QAW / WSS-M2C924-A). I wonder if it is the same as the Toyota W/S Fluid?Do you know the P/N of the W/S Fluid? According to one supplier Ford XT-8-QAW is equivalent to 08886-81015 and 08886-00405. Mobil recommends Mobil ATF

3309 for my Fusion (see ) . Personally, for the RAV4 I am going to stick with fluid from the Toyota Dealer.

Ed

Perhaps my experience is exceptional, but we've had a 1997 Camry LE since late '97 (a Hertz ex-rental with (as I recall) 23K miles on it. I've changed oil on a regular 5000-6000 mile basis since then, but every time I check the A/T, the fluid has been clean, not burnt or smelly, and never needed replenishing. So I've left it alone. Never changed it or the screen (if there is one?) For all I know, the fluid is what it left the factory with, unless Hertz changed it in the first 23,000 miles. The result ? The transmission shifts smooth as glass, with the shift points hardly noticeable unless you're paying attention. I've never had any slippage, noise, or other signs of trouble with it. Oh, and we just turned 140,000 miles on the clock. The moral ? Don't try to fix something that's not broken. If you think "Yeah, but the damn thing may burn out the day after tomorrow, with that lack of care" all I can reply with is "uh huh, and so can your tranny, which you've poured hundreds of dollars into."

And do they have a financial interest in getting you to pay for something you don't really need. You betcha.

Jack G.

Now or later. Change your fluids at reasonable intervals, or pay to rebuild/replace.

Old stuff. ;)

Newer BMWs have completely sealed trannies. No dipsticks for engine oil or ATF! Oil level checked by sensor and displayed.

I also read manual gear oil costs $300 per change so people substitute Redline!

I think it depends on the expected life of the car. If Toyota starts sending out coupons after 4 years then no ATF change during that period would be fine. But given some of these U-series transmissions started skipping gears right out of the factory, I'm not sure the no- maintenance claim is a good one. For one, in 2004 Toyota lowered the "normal" oil change interval from 7500 miles down to 5000 miles.