How many hours to change a timing belt?

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All:
 How many hours does it take to replace a timing belt and water pump on a 1998
toyota avalon? I have been
told about five to six hours. Does that sound about right? Thanks!

Keith

Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?


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I don't know what the "book" calls for, but if IRRC, on my Corolla, it
was five hours. Add, the pump, they'll probably add another hour or
two.

If you are doing it yourself, fine. If you plan to have a mechanic do
it....esp. a TOY dealer...be aware that they usually charge you for
the water pump as if it is a completely separate repair, despite the
fact that they have most of it "done" when they disassemble for the
timing belt.

A few people have posted that their mechanic HAS NOT done the "whole
separate charge..."  A number of others have posted that their
mechanics HAVE charged....

In my personal experience, both my toy dealer and my indy mechanic
said they WOULD charge a complete and separate charge. Of course, my
local TOY dealer charges some 20 percent above the TOY MSRP on parts
purchased over the counter, also...


Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?



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I don't know what the "book" calls for, but if IRRC, on my Corolla, it
was five hours. Add, the pump, they'll probably add another hour or
two.

If you are doing it yourself, fine. If you plan to have a mechanic do
it....esp. a TOY dealer...be aware that they usually charge you for
the water pump as if it is a completely separate repair, despite the
fact that they have most of it "done" when they disassemble for the
timing belt.

Of the 50 Toyota dealers I personally visited, only one charged separately
for the water pump when done in conjuction with the timing belt, and they
are no longer in business.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)



Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?


On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 20:47:34 -0600, "Ray O" wrote:

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  And that's the cause and effect in one paragraph.

  If all their customers are totally "car ignorant" a dealer can get
away with charging them for the two procedures separately like that.
But it is a form of...  Well, theft is too strong a word, but fraud
might not be.  It's certainly being less than honest.

  Try that on too many people who /do/ know what is involved in both
jobs, and word gets around that their customers are being seriously
overcharged on a regular basis.  And business will dry up.  For a
small dealer in a small town, the bad publicity that this style of
"Customer Service" generates can be the kiss of death.

  Only big dealers in big cities can get away with that - because the
city is simply too large for 2+ Million people to all get the word.
They've tried pulling stuff like that on me at the initial service
write-up or estimate, but quickly adjusted the price to be competitive
when I pointed out their "error" in the labor hours...

    --<< Bruce >>--

PS:  Ray, watch the quoting - you didn't > mark any of Tim's stuff.

Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?



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The dealer that went out of business also happened to have the worst
customer relations score of any Toyota dealer in the U.S. and so attracted
the attention of Toyota's U.S. president and all of the executive VP's.
They were a major thorn in my side because one of the ways my performance
was evaluated was by customer relations scores, and they ignored all of my
advice.  Having them close up shop in the middle of the night before various
state agencies descended on them turned out to be a blessing!

I don't know what happened with the quoting - it is usually automatic unless
the previous poster used a non-standard format (I don't know whether or not
this was the case here).  Thanks for the heads up!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)



Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?


Having changed the timing belt, water pump, and everything else that
touches the belt on my '95 Avalon, the job would have been very
straight forward if I had the special tools to hold the crank pulley
and camshaft pulleys.  Rental of a 3/4" impact wrench, destroying the
camshaft pulleys, and the extra time needed would have paid for the
tools, but I could not locate them and had no way of fabricating them.

Tom

Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?




tomit wrote:
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I ask some dealers if I could rent a pulley holder from them, but they
all said they didn't have any and that they used nothing but an impact
wrench.  Since I didn't have the latter, I made a pulley holder out of
a 1/2" thick bar of steel and a couple of metric bolts (and broke 2
thread taps in the process).

Some people get the pulley bolt out by wedging a wrench between the
pulley bolt and the ground and blipping the starter with the ignition
system disabled, but I've heard it doesn't work with Honda engines
because they spn counterclockwise.

Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?


Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
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And you know that how? Most owners of dealers don't micromanage the
shops. They have shop foremen to do that.

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If they say, "we're going to charge you separately for changing the
water pump, even though it is really part of another operation, and
we're not really doing the work," I don't see where there is fraud.

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It can be the kiss of death. I suspect that there were other problems
with the service department, as well.

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Sometimes these errors really are errors.

Jeff

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Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?


"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
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You personally visited 50 Toyota dealers? Physically went to those dealers?
For what purpose, and where were those 50 dealers?



Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?




JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
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When he tells you, you'll respect his knowledge of Toyotas even more.

Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?


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I probably will, but I'd still like to know.



Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?



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I personally visited closer to 75 Toyota dealers but spent time in the
service department (any where from 4 to hundreds of hours) of around 50
while I was employed by Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A.  The purpose of the
visits to the service departments was to monitor their service operations,
meet with customers who had problems with their cars, and to fix those
problem cars.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)



Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?


On Jan 2, 6:47=A0pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
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Unfortunately, my Local TOY dealer has been in business since the
mid-80s and enjoys a virtual monopoly in a small town with a unusually
well-off population for this region....which is why they charge some
20 percent over the TOY MSRP on all parts sales.

This is the same dealer that when a friend took in his 85 Camry a few
years ago, they whined and said they were having a lot of trouble
finding the problem because the car had no computer to tell them where
to start -- based on the symptoms, I guessed fuel pump and you know,
it turned out I was right....LOL.

Now, I also mentioned my indy mechanic said he would also charge
separately for this timing belt/water pump thing.  Well, that's his
right.  He has fixed some half-dozen or some minor-ish repairs for
free also when my wife/daughter/son or I have stopped in without
notice with "some strange noise...part falling off...flat tire,
etc....," so I can't fault him much.  He also has been in business
since 1960, has more business than he can handle, and has tried to
retire several times, but can't "stay away."


Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?



On Jan 2, 6:47 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
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Unfortunately, my Local TOY dealer has been in business since the
mid-80s and enjoys a virtual monopoly in a small town with a unusually
well-off population for this region....which is why they charge some
20 percent over the TOY MSRP on all parts sales.

This is the same dealer that when a friend took in his 85 Camry a few
years ago, they whined and said they were having a lot of trouble
finding the problem because the car had no computer to tell them where
to start -- based on the symptoms, I guessed fuel pump and you know,
it turned out I was right....LOL.

Now, I also mentioned my indy mechanic said he would also charge
separately for this timing belt/water pump thing.  Well, that's his
right.  He has fixed some half-dozen or some minor-ish repairs for
free also when my wife/daughter/son or I have stopped in without
notice with "some strange noise...part falling off...flat tire,
etc....," so I can't fault him much.  He also has been in business
since 1960, has more business than he can handle, and has tried to
retire several times, but can't "stay away."
*************
Hmmm, I don't know why, but the ">" doesn't appear when I reply to your
posts so I just used asterisks to denote the end of your post and the
beginning of mine.

IMHO, small town dealers who pull the stuff you're describing stay
small-time because of those tactics, and having a dealer like that in town
is a great opportunity for a competent  independent shop.

The dealer I called on who pulled that stuff was in a metropolitan market
and sold 3 brands.  He incurred the wrath of all three automakers, the state
attorney general, and the TV investigative news reporter that got ripped off
on his personal car.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)



Re: How many hours to change a timing belt?



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the flat rate time to replace a timing belt and water pump is around 5 or 6
hours.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)



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