How to Prevent Sludging in "99 Avalon

If the question is how to prevent (actually minimize is a better word) sludging in a Toyota or other car then the first decision would be to change the oil and filter regularly and on a shorter schedule recommended by the manufacturer without fail. The second choice would be whether to use synthetic or regular oil. My choice would be synthetic.

His statement about synthetic is...well...rubbish. The principal difference to the car owner is that synthetic oil doesn't break down like regular oil. Just look inside the valve cover of a car run with synthetic to observe the lack of black carbon deposits.

Toyota branded oil is Mobil, but not Mobil 1. Dealerships can use whatever oil they wish, as long as it meets the automaker's specifications.

Further proof of the myths and misconceptions out there.

I'd find it hard to believe that synthetic versus conventional is a determining factor regarding additive package.

And -that- is the problem. So much has changed WRT engine lubrication and specifications. Tough sell to get anyone to pay and sit through a seminar on lubrication technology because oil is oil, right? Maybe their tune will change when they have to pay for a few engines.

I'm working on it but I have much more to learn. The fact that I realize this puts me ahead of the game.

Mercedes Benz lost a law suit to the tune of 140 million dollars a few years back relating to engine failures because of using the wrong oil, one of the deciding factors being that their own dealerships weren't using oil that met the OEMs specifications.

Do you have data that proves this, or is this simply something that you believe to be true based on advertising??

A look at the valve cover does not qualify as proof.

It is a reasonably high level of assurance. When you look inside the valve cover of cars with 200k miles that were run on standard oil and see some sludging there is in my experience a lot more to be found in other recesses of the engine. If you look inside the valve cover of a motor run for 200k miles and see no sludging that is evidence that a much lower level of sludge is being created.

His statement that synthetic oil looks clean because it doesn't suspend any sludge is wrong. There is none - or very little to be suspended. If there was aludge that was being left behind because the oil was not doing it's job then there would be evidence. In other words his statement does not appear to be based on reality.

Has Toyota always used Mobil for their brand of oil, or do they change from time to time?

I took a look at the API license directory and searched on "Toyota" and saw some interesting things -

If you search on Toyota Motor Coroporation, you get a bunch of oil from a company called "Castle." I assume this is what is in cars that come from Japan. Castle Oil is also sold by a Japanese company called Tadti (Toyota Aftermarket Creating and Trading Incoprporated) which is apparently a Toyota subsiduary (see

and )If you search on Toyota Motor Sales, USA, you get the Toyota branded oils in the current grades. If you search on TOYOTA TECHNOCRAFT COMPANY, Ltd, you get oil branded as TRD SUPER RACING PRO. If you search on Toyota Canada, Inc, you get among other things, Toyota Fully Synthetic Oil - something they don't appear to offer in the US.

Ed

The problem is that these engines did change. While the old engines may have been just fine with people being lax on oil changes, these engines were not as tolerant, and people who where not diligent about the oil changes did not get away with it. I do fault Toyota for not seeing that these engines were less tolerant of abuse, and should have tightened the oil change recommendation to add more margin for error. Regardless, the bottom line is, change your oil and you won't have a problem. If people who regularly changed their oil got sludge, this would have affected a far larger number of vehicles, rather than the statistically insignificant amount that got sludge.

I don't know the answer to that one. Mobil was Toyota's supplier when Toyota branded oil was introduced in the U.S. in the 1980's, but I don't know if things have changed since I left the company in the early 1990's.

I believe that the factory fill for vehicles assembled in Japan is supplied by Nippon Oil.

The deniers are entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. Toyota changed the head in an effort to improve emissions. After gelling began to occur is engines serviced properly at dealership, Toyota gave up on blaming owner negligence and issued a warranty that authorizes its dealers to "clean, repair or replace any engine presenting evidence of gelling," for eight years unlimited mileage. The owner need only "attest" that the oil was changes as required. Engines built after August of 2003 used what was basically the head used before the head change. ;)

mike

Almost true, except for the part that you are making up: "After gelling began to occur is engines serviced properly at dealership"

This is totally false and just another one of your lies that you keep repeating in the hopes that people who don't know you may actually believe your crap.

Ed, many new 07 and 08's are coming with full synthetic, ie 0-20 or one can use 5-20 blend.

My SO's 2007 RAV4 calls for 5W20 or 0W20, but it doesn't say they have to be synthetic. The manual lists the following oil requirements:

Oil grade: Use ILSAC multigrade engine oil. SAE 5W-20 and SAE 0W-20 engine oil may be used. However, SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.

In my opinion this is a poorly defined specification. It does not mention the API service category at all (currently SM). This is what most people are familiar with and the specification prominently listed on most oil. ILSAC is an automotive industry organization (but still associated with the API). There are multiple ILSAC specifications. I think they should have specified the one that must be met.

From

: "....the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), a group consisting of the Big Three domestic car manufacturers and the Japanese car manufacturers. ILSAC defines the performance characteristics and the chemistry of the oil it will accept for use in its engines, and API makes sure the oil sold by marketers displaying that label meets that definition. Some oils meet both the API service category and the ILSAC specifications; these will carry both labels."

I am guessing that Toyota wants you to use oil than meets the ILSAC GF-4 specification, but they didn't say that explicitly. See

for the GF-4 Specifications. As far as I can tell ILSAC GF-4 and API "SM" oils have to meet the same requirements (compare and ). There are many conventional 5W20 oils that meet the ILSAC GF-4 Specification. Because of the scare over sludge, and the fact that my SO won't change her oil until the oil change light comes on, I have been using Mobil 1 fully synthetic 5W20 in her RAV4. After the third oil change I sent a sample off for analysis and it came back as being clean and good for at least another 3000 miles. I am not interested in extending the oil change interval, but it was nice to know that the oil was still in good condition.

Ed

Ed, 0-20 can ONLY be synthetic.

I don't know of anyone making a conventional 0W20, but is there any reason they can't? And Toyota specifically allows the use of 5W20 which is available as a conventional oil product (and a blend and a fully synthetic). Where I am, North Carolina, the difference between 5W20 and 0W20 is trivial. Still, I prefer the synthetic version (or at least the blend).

Ed