Is R12 really unavailable now?

After Midas screwed up my perfectly good working A/C system in the '93 Corolla and caused it to start leaking, the compressor eventually died from not enough gas, and I had it replaced this year. This current mechanic told me that R12 cant be bought anymore now ( or is too expensive, I forget ), and suggested switching to newer gas, which he said just required using different oil or something, in the system and he said he's done it before when he was in Florida and did a lot of A/C work down there with older cars like this.

So I had him do it when he put the new compressor in, but the A/C is inadequate now, when the temp goes above around 80 degrees. This stinks.

Not sure what to do now, but you guys may be right, I may need another mechanic to do it.

The hard part is finding a mechanic that's:

Honest Competent Affordable

all at the same time in the same person. 2 out of 3 is usually the best we can do.

And I would sure BE CAREFUL with Craig's list when looking for help. It seems that a lot of ex-cons are using it to find work. Not all the people on there are ex-cons, but some are. And of course not all ex-cons are bad people ( so many things are "crimes" that shouldnt be ), but some are.

Reply to
Jane_Galt
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R134a pretty much requires a parallel flow condenser to get the head pressure down and cool properly. It also runs a couple PSI less for the same temp in the evaporator so any low side cycling pressure switches need to be replaced with an adjustable one so you can dial it in to just above where the lines frost over. The same applies to any other pressure controls present such as the control valve in a variable displacement compressor, though I don't know if this applies to you.

Reply to
Daniel who wants to know

R-12 can still be had, and at this time I still don't recommend changing R-12 systems to 134a.. :( Mainly because of the undersized condenser coil. The head pressures run too high, and most converted systems have to slightly undercharge to keep the head pressure under control. In other words, the cooling is lame compared to R-12 as you have noticed. You can buy R-12 cans and also jugs on ebay. But you need an EPA ticket to do so. And yes, it's probably more per ounce than 134a. But it's worth the premium.. I'd say R-12 on ebay averages 20 bucks a pound or so.. Myself, I have R-12 out the kazoo.. I have a nearly full 30 pound jug of it which I hold on to just for the random R-12 vehicle, or R-12 refrigerators, freezers.. It will probably take years to use it all up at the rate I'm non using it... :/ It just collects dust these days.. You could always change back to R-12, but I'd do a full flush and change the drier and maybe even the metering orifice if I were to do so.. "it may have an expansion valve instead, but I'm not sure.." But the flush and new drier would be important as you don't want to mix the oils.. It's kind of like converting a R-22 home system to 410A.. You have to flush the copper lines, or replace them as you don't want the mineral oil in the system. 410A uses synthetic oil..

BTW, I've done A/C work since 1977 so I do have a clue in this area... I have a universal EPA ticket and also the extra one to buy cans.. I also have passed the 410A certification which is not required, but handy to know.. I install 410A systems, and also do R-22 to 410A conversions. So I can buy and sell any refrigerant. The "can" EPA ticket is super easy.. You can take it online, and it's open book.. A monkey could pass it.. :/ I would think that would let you buy cans on e-bay, but not the 30 lb jugs..

Reply to
nm5k

R12 is unavailable.

Your 2002 Corolla uses R134a.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

It's still available on ebay, and other sources..

She's talking about a 93.. It might have still been R-12..

Reply to
nm5k

If I find a competent mechanic who can switch me back, would you sell it?

This "man made global warming" stuff is BS anyway.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Reply to
Jane_Galt

It was, before the idiots at Midas botched it up.

Reply to
Jane_Galt

You're incorrect about that. There is no doubt that global warming is caused, in part, by man. In period of time has the rate of CO2 change been so fast. And, CO2 is a major danger to the life in the oceans. The oceans are absorbing about 1/3 of the CO2, which is lowering the pH of the oceans.

Reply to
dr_jeff

Who brought it to the "idiots" at Midas? I would blame that person. Midas is for mufflers, not A/C. Chain stores are often run by managers who are interested in making money, not in good costumer service.

Reply to
dr_jeff

And R12 wasn't banned because of AGW anyway, it was banned for the chlorine destroying the ozone layer. R134a is actually a very strong global warming gas, a few thousand times as much as CO2 IIRC. This is why they are trying to use CO2 as a refrigerant but its critical temperature is so low it can only be used in a transcritical system, of which I have no idea how it operates. I understand regular phase change refrigeration though.

This reminds me of Youtube videos of someone's diesel truck "rolling coal" and a comment will invariably be "I bet that's great for the ozone layer" when soot contains no chlorine or bromine.

Reply to
Daniel who wants to know

No practical way to do it.. Mine is in a 30 pound jug, and I don't want to sell the whole jug. Also, one will need the proper EPA ticket to buy it, and the one for cans won't qualify I don't think. If you decided to switch back, it would be more practical to buy cans off flea bay.. And for cans, all you need is the "can" automotive EPA ticket which is easier to get and pass than the one needed to buy jugs. Most any auto A/C person likely has that ticket. If they don't , I don't believe they are legal to even put gauges on an R-12 system.

Reply to
nm5k

They've only known about the ozone layer for how many decades now? It naturally recedes and grows in cycles.

Reply to
Jane_Galt

They do all kinds of car repairs.

Reply to
Jane_Galt

They do all kinds of work on cars - not necessarily the same as car repairs ;-) I've seen the results of their exhaust work and brake work which is supposedly their specialty, and am not impressed.

Reply to
Ray O

Wrong. It is called the "ozone hole." While it does get bigger and smaller in annual cycles, at the same time each year, it was getting bigger and bigger. In addition, the chemistry of the chloroflorocarbons and the atmosphere showed that some of the chloroflorocarbons were destroying the ozone layer. The chloroflorocarbons were removed from products, and the ozone layer started getting smaller.

So, by removing chloroflorocarbons from aerosol sprays, A/C equipment, fire extinquishers and other products, the ozone hole got smaller.

So: 1) We learned how we were affecting the atmosphere.

2) We took specific steps to stop the degrading of the atmosphere. 3) We improved the problem we were causing.

So, this is an example of using science, we were able to reserve a problem with the atmosphere we were causing.

Global warming is a different problem.

It is clear from your comments you don't know enough about the ozone hole and global warming to have intelligent opinions on them. I suggest that you use available resources, like scientific literature (Scientific American, US Gov't resources) and good resources on the internet as well as good books from the library or bookstore to educate yourself on these important public problems.

Jeff

Reply to
dr_jeff

I know. However, that doesn't mean that they have competent mechanics to do all kinds of car repairs or that they won't rip you off.

One of my former neighbors was a service manager at Penske Auto Repair. After they closed down at the time of Kmart's bankruptcy, he was a service manager at three chains until he became a service manager at a Ford dealership. While he was a chain manager, he was assigned to go to different stores that were failing, because they were ripping off their costumers. They would come in a simple repair or maintenance, and end up with a $500 repair bill. For some odd reason, people chose not to return to the stores. He turned around the stores by doing honest work and charging honest prices.

So don't tell me that do all kinds of auto repairs. Show me that they know what they are doing with the auto repairs and are honest on all the repairs.

That's like Staples or Best Buy doing computer repair. Sure, they say they know what they're doing, but do they? I don't think so.

Jeff

Reply to
dr_jeff

Exactly what did the second mechanic do to convert the system to R-134a? If he did a cheapo, lousy conversion and only changed the oil and refrigerant, the system should still cool well in 80F weather, especially a system like yours that's regulated by an expansion valve (temperature) instead of a pressure valve, unless the wrong amount of refrigerant was put in.

Reply to
larry moe 'n curly

dr_jeff wrote :

It's a hole in the ozone layer.

What a surprise, having to do with the seasons, I'd imagine, being it's over the pole where the sun shines a lot more or a lot less between winter or summer.

And my point is that they havent known about it all that long, which JUST MIGHT mean that it gets bigger in response to NORMAL SOLAR cycles? Like sunspot cycles?

Whoopee. And then suddenly it will start getting bigger again and blow THAT theory.

IF we were causing it. So much of the environmental agenda seems to involve redistribution of wealth.

For example Obama's shutting down drilling in the gulf now, destroying

140,000 GOOD jobs, while he loans money to Brazil for even deeper offshore drilling, and to Mexico so THEY can drill...( wait for it...) IN THE GULF!

Ah but that makes it where us rich evil American oppressors have to give more of our money and export more of our jobs to places like Brazil and Mexico, hastening the Cloward Piven planned collapse and globalization of our evil rich capitalist pig nation.

Follow the money, I bet it involves globalist socialism.

Yeah, now that is utter BS.

Oh yes, I dont have several PH'd's in meteorology and various other sciences, like the guys who apply for Obama Cash grants at NCAR. Why who am I to have an opinion at all? A worthless peon the likes of Marge Simpson. Tut tut...

?Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.? ? Barack Obama

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." -- Barack Obama

?You know, if you look at the victories and failures of the civil-rights movement, and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at a lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it, I?d be okay, but the Supreme Court never entered into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And uh, to that extent, as radical as I think people tried to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn?t that radical. It didn?t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution ? at least as it?s been interpreted, and Warren Court interpreted it in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties: [It] says what the states can?t do to you, says what the federal government can?t do to you, but it doesn?t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn?t shifted, and one of the, I think, the tragedies of the civil-rights movement was because the civil-rights movement became so court-focused, uh, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change. And in some ways we still suffer from that.? - Barack Obama, 2001

"The third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers: Mao Tse-tung and Mother Theresa -- not often coupled with each other, but the two people I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point which is 'you're going to make choices; you're going to challenge; you're going to say why not; you're going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before." - Anita Dunn, Obama White House communications director.

"Any serious effort to reform the media system would have to be necessarily part of a revolutionary program to overthrow the capitalist system itself. Also, there is no real answer, but to remove, brick by brick, the capitalist system itself, rebuilding the entire society on socialist principles." - Robert McChesney, Obama FCC diversity czar.

" A legislative effort to regulate broadcasting in the interest of democratic principles should not be seen as an abridgment of the free speech guarantee." - Obama Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein

Reply to
Jane_Galt

"A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States." - John Holdren, President Obama's top science adviser.

Reply to
Jane_Galt

What a coincidence. I brought my car to a K-Mart years ago, because the A/C quit cooling and they told me I needed a new compressor for $850. I told them I needed a second opinion and took it to a mechanic down the street, near where we lived at the time, and he said it just needed some gas. $80. It worked fine after that, for the few years until we sold it.

I never went back to K-Mart again after that. Not just the repair shop, the whole chain.

Reply to
Jane_Galt

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