Junk? You decide...

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------------------------------------------------ The DNC - Building a bridge to the 20th Century.

Reply to
Eric Dreher
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I'm happy and I'm sad. Sad to see a great american company getting it's ass whipped in the world market, but happy to see they are in fighting spirit. I see today Kirk Kerkorian purchased 5 percent of GM which boosted stock prices. The holders are cheering.....I guess. Strange love affair. Makes me think stock holders only think of their holdings and what it's worth. Seems they should be better thinking of the company and what it's doing to advance their product in a world market. If that happens then they should cheer.

Reply to
Dbu,^

Eric Dreher wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Shows what happens when you cave to the unions. The deals cut with the unions after WW2 are the main reason the domestics are in trouble now.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

This is a complex issue, but in my opinion, goes back to management. After W.W.II Edward Deming, an American statistician, taught the Japanese not only how to implement quality control but a management style. These include:

  1. Create constancy of purpose.
  2. Adopt new philosophy of quality.
  3. Cease dependence on final inspection.
  4. Consider total cost, not just initial price.
  5. Find problems; improve constantly.
  6. Institute on-the-job training.
  7. Institute leadership across the organization.
  8. Drive out fear.
  9. Break down communication barriers between units.
  10. Eliminate slogans, targets, exhortations for workers.
  11. Eliminate numerical goals.
  12. Encourage pride of workmanship.
  13. Encourage education & self-improvement.
  14. Take actions needed to make transformations.

The Japanese can make automobiles in the US of comparable quality to their other factories, with the one big differences between them and American companies being management philosophy.

TeGGeR® wrote:

Reply to
Sliderbot

Give that man a ceegar.

------------------------------------------------ The DNC - Building a bridge to the 20th Century.

Reply to
Eric Dreher

In 1975 the soothsayers were saying the same thing about Chrysler. In 1985 the soothsayers were saying the same thing about Ford. Ten years later Ford was buying up other car companies all over Europe. GM is still #1, Ford #2, Chrysler #3 and Toyota is still #4. Same as they where in 1975 and 1985. LOL

mike hunt

"Dbu,^" wrote:

Reply to
DustyRhoades

There are lots of people who can only afford junk. Actually, cheap junk cars are more expensive over the life of the car then a Toyota or Honda, but people who don't have much money usually are a bit short in the intellectual area as well.

Reply to
Mark A

#4 in the US, but not #4 in the "world". That thinking (still number 2) reminds me of the demonrats and SS fix, dont worry about it till its almost bankrupt. Both are losing ground while Toyota is gaining. How long before Toyota isnt no longer #4 in the US?

Does anyone know Toyotas ranking in the world, isnt it #2 or something?

Reply to
Liberals=Minority Party

And it took the Japanese several decades to match US quality and another 10-15 years to produce competitive designs. But I doubt GM has such patience because Ford didn't, even after hiring Deming and making great inroads in quality in the 1980s but then forgetting Deming's teachings just 10 years later.

Reply to
rantonrave

Reply to
Sliderbot

Toyota is #3 behind GM and Ford worldwide. Last year Toyota sent out a press release saying they were #2, but they did not include sales of the Japanese companies, like GM partner Suzuki and Ford partner Mazda. Their reasoning was GM and Ford do not OWN the Japanese companies that build the small cars they sell overseas that compete with Toyota. The laws in Japan prohibit foreign ownership of Japanese companies.

mike hunt

Liberals=M>

Reply to
MikeHunt

It seems Toyota can do no wrong these days. According to the Raleigh News and Observer, there is a 9 month wait for the Prius but hybrid Escapes, Accords and Civics are sitting in lots looking for buyers. Go figure.

Reply to
Art

GM hired a retired Toyota quality guy. The first thing he told them is that they had to start making parts that tested out to last 100k miles instead of the warranty period. Hey, morons, you had to hire someone to tell you that? Now wonder your cars suck.

Reply to
Art

Actually the union deals are not the big problem. Toyota workers are paid well too. But in the US, domestics have high health care costs for workers and retirees and high pension costs. TOyota has a very young work force so no pensions and low health care costs. GM would love to see a national health care system.

Reply to
Art

Try checking the production rates, you will discover the reason. LOL

mike hunt

Art wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

Did you make up that stupid statement or did it come to you in a dream? LOL

mike hunt

Art wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

The problem would be getting the Japanese to pay into the system, they don't pay any US federal taxes. Perhaps buyer of Japanese cars should pay a 'health care' tax LOL

mike hunt

Art wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

"Art" wrote in news:sbgfe.5238$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

Precisely my point. The automakers cut sweet deals with Walter Reuther (sweet for Walter, that is) after the war, containing high sugar-content perks like those above. The Japs never did that here. Now the cavities from all that sugar are showing up and hurting the domestics very badly.

According to an article in Thursday's National Post newspaper, those medical and pension benefits add $1,400US to the *cost* of every domestic car and truck.

This means the the foreign makers in North America are at nearly a $1,400 advantage right off the bat.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

It sure makes the Toyota buyers look even more foolish for paying the current 20% to 30% higher prices Toyota is charging for their similar size and equipped cars, doesn't it? Oh, I forgot Toyotas never break down ;)

mike hunt

"TeGGeR®" wrote:

Reply to
BrickMason

Mike, I know you cant be serious. You mean you want to punish a consumer if he doesnt by your beloved Fords? Mike, I know you better than that and I dont think you are a tariff kind fo guy!

Reply to
Liberals=Angry Losers!

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