Looking for buying advice...

Hi everyone,

I am currently zeroing in on the purchase of an '06 Camry SE. I'm down to the final step - ordering the vehicle and price negotiation. I'm hoping y'all can lend me some insight in doing this.

I have spec'ed out the exact vehicle I want - color, options, etc. None of my local dealerships have the car I want, so it must be ordered (which is fine with me).

Now, I have already put down a $500 deposit at one local dealership while they *attempt* to order me the car. I say "attempt" because they said that they have seen Toyota reject requests for special orders. Although my configuration is not at all exotic (all I'm asking for is the addition of the VSC & Side airbag package), they wanted to forewarn me that I have about a 50/50 chance at getting the car I want. They also told me that it would take about 7-10 business days to know whether or not Toyota will fulfill my request.

Although I did not sign a contract, we did agree on a price- $26K even. The sales manager told me that they would not be interested in selling the car "at invoice" because there is nothing in a special order for them. So we agreed on a price that is about $900 over Edmunds' invoice price and about $300 under Edmunds' "TMV" price.

So my first questions are these: Is this dealership feeding me a line concerning my chances on getting this vehicle to perhaps scare me into buying something off of their lot? Or is this legit?

Also, in hindsight I think this price is too high. Thoughts?

As I await word from that dealership, I received an email from a larger dealership offering me what seems to be a much better deal. They are offering me the car *AT* what they are calling "true invoice price". This dealership even faxed me a quote that broke out the costs like this:

True dealer invoice Base invoice price + option prices + destination + TDA + dealer holdback + wholesale financial reserve + tax, tags & title + $99 processing fee

This seems to be a more "honest" quote in that it breaks out all the fees. My questions here are this:

How many of these fees should I consider paying? If I am ordering the car and not buying one off of their lot, does that change which of these fees I have to pay?

I used to own a retail business myself, so I understand that a store needs to see some profit. I just want to be fair and educated.

Thanks in advance!!! James

Reply to
jcubeta
Loading thread data ...

Allow me to throw a wrench into the works.

I can't help with the negotiations, but I have an idea about the car itself. You said you want an SE with side airbags, but I have to wonder if you can get the LX -- or whatever the higher trim package is -- for a similar price and have the side airbags included along with other options that you could use but do without in the SE model?

When them make these packages, they can do it much cheaper than the cost of the various options priced out separately, so you can get the base model and add a few things you like, or get the next higher model that has the same options included plus some others that can be handy and useful, for just a bit more than the base model with the extras you actually want. For example, if you wanted air conditioning but didn't care about Cruise Control, you might find that the Base plus Air is only a few dollars cheaper than the higher level of trim that has the Air included, and has Cruise plus a dozen cupholders and electric windows and door locks. The electric windows and door locks have to be worth the few extra dollars because you will use them, the Cruise won't be worth anything to you because you don't like to use it, but it will be worth something on the resale later on, so having it sit there unused is a worthwhile thing.

The Package Deals are almost always the better choice than special ordering a lower model with extra options. Sure, there are exceptions to this rule, but you should look into it before you insist on the special order. And, they might have the Package Deal in your color in the next city, and you can make a weekend of bed & breakfasting to go and get it. Your Main Squeeze will see this as a benefit.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Hi Jeff,

You are correct in that most XLEs are typically prebuilt with the VSC & Side Airbag package, but it's still an option, i.e. not a base model feature.

Concerning the B&B idea - don't think I haven't thought about that! :) I have been searching dealership inventories literally nationwide. The only place I have found SEs on the lot with the VSC/airbag package is Washington state (!). Since I'm Virginia, that would make for lots of B&Bs. :)

Thanks, James

Reply to
jcubeta

To make things clearer for you, let me point out the invoice is the price the dealer pays to the manufacture and it includes base price with standard equipment, any factory options, holdback which is profit, generally 4%, that is returned to the dealership quarterly, TDA the advertising fee which is NOT charged on a ordered retail sale, and shipping cost. Dealer options, all of which are high profit items generally, are NOT part of the MSRP or the invoice

When ever one is buying a vehicle they should ALWAYS compare the TOTAL drive home price, not the selling price, from dealer to dealer and one brand against another . Unless you are paying cash, the total interest cost for the loan should be added to the total delivered price. Interest adds thousands to the total drive home price and rates vary greatly from brand to brand and dealer to dealer of the same brand. I hope for the price you quoted it is has the V6

Reply to
Mike Hunter

And your wife would complain about that many meals out? I drove the Camry SE before and was not impressed. Any reason for choosing the SE over the XLE? I agree that the SE looks good, but does not handle like a sports car. If looks are what you are after it is a reasonable car.

We have had good luck with Miller Toyota in Manassas, particularly with Sam Lee. We bought two Toyotas from him and are about to buy a third.

Reply to
ma_twain

I drove both the SE and the XLE. I took like the look of the SE better. I didn't feel much difference in how the cars handled, although I'm not looking for something that handles "like a sports car".

I had briefly exchanged emails with Miller, but they did not seem interested in special ordering a car.

Thanks, James

Reply to
jcubeta

When I shopped for my Camry in '01, I wanted it a certain way. But I quickly realized my power to negotiate increased greatly if I found one on a dealers lot that was 'as close as possible' to the one I wanted. They have a lot more incentive to work with you.

Reply to
Charles Pisano

If my information from Toyota is correct:

SE has 3.3 V6 - same as Highlander and Solaria - XLE's get the 3.0 V6. Or if you get the SE 4 you can get a manual 5 speed. Seem to recall the 3.3 V6 has a just few more HP but noticeably more torque.

Jack G.

Reply to
Jack G

I seem to recall Toyota having a 'no special order' policy at one time. It could be the dealers I spoke to didn't want the hassle. I remember thinking how bizarre that they didn't allow special orders. Perhaps Toyota makes it really difficult so as to discourage people from doing it?

Reply to
ravelation

Yes it would. My guess is that the Main Squeeze would soon tire of that plan.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Yep - I kinda understand what these things (holdback, TDA, etc) are.

What I'm really trying to figure out is whether or not it is FAIR for me to pay these on a special order vehicle?

Thanks again! James

Reply to
jcubeta

The simple answer is no. The dealer will make more money then if he sold one out of stock. No floor plan interest and he gets the advertising fee returned on his quarterly.

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

So, hypothetically, if I say I am not willing to pay TDA or holdback or WFR, does the dealership make any profit?

Thanks, J

Reply to
jcubeta

I tried previously to tell you the holdback and advertising fee are included in the invoice price. If the dealer is adding them on to the invoice, as you listed in your post, he is charging you twice to hide that fact. That is ALL extra profit. If a dealer will not sell you a car, any car any brand, for $300 over the invoice find another dealer or brand that will. At that price he is making 4% of the MSRP (minus shipping) plus $300. There a many fine high quality long lasting vehicles of many brands available on the market today. Don't believe the myth that one is far superior to another, go find a dealer and a brand that will treat you fairly, WBMA

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

The simple answer to WHAT is no, top poster?

WTF are you talking about, top poster?

Reply to
dizzy

Hypothetically, barring unusual circumstances, the dealership wouldn't sell the car.

Reply to
B a r r y

In reality, if it was a Suburban, they would still sell the car - just to get it off the lot.

Reply to
ma_twain

Okay. Read only if you have not order the car yet.....

Have the dealership go into Dealer Daily (a dealership only web site).. Have them pull up the Colorado or Chicago area and do a search for a 2550 ( Camry V6 SE - I assume you are referring to a V6 since the 26k. ) with a GU package (Vehicle Stability Control & Side Airbags). Most will also come with a CF or Z1 package. Have them hand you the print out. Any dealership wanting to sell you the car will not have a problem with this. It will list all of the charges you are interested in.

Here is your main problem. You live in a region called Central Atlantic Toyota. Most GU Camrys are in the V6. Nearly non-existent in the 4 cyl. And most GU vehicles are in the mid-west...... except for the XLE.

Do not rely upon Toyota's web site or Edmunds for options. Toyota bundles there options. And not all bundles are in production. If you want to know what is being built in your region you need to get a copy of the Toyota Vehicle Order list (TVO). Any dealership who is willing to sell you a car is also willing to share the TVO with you. This applies to Toyotas made in North America. Imported Toyotas are nearly uniform regardless of region of destination.

The line concerning availability of special orders is not. Having had sold Toyotas for two years, I can tell you it is not always possible. But, checking other regions will tell you if it is in production.

For example, I special ordered a 2005 Camry LE V6 for a client with a GU package. It took about a month and a half to get it, but I got it. When it comes to a special order, usually a dealership has to wait until the next Allocation is announced and then go into Dealer Daily and request a build change. It does not always work.

Okay, so how much should you pay? I would like one person to walk into Wal-Mart and say, " I'll give you fifty cents for this gallon of milk and no more!" Doesn't happen. Would be funny to watch.

So you want to negotiate even more? Good luck.

On the invoice, which you should have seen a "like one" by now, you will see two columns. Invoice and retail. Consumer Reports says a fair price to pay is 4 to 6 percent above invoice, minus any current incentives. This is good advice for vehicles that are not in high demand. Like the Prius.

Okay, invoice on the car plus invoice on the options + destination + tax, tags & title + TDA would be an incredible deal.

Holdback is dealership profit that helps them with their floor plan. Some are willing to work with this number. Beware of "if I could, would you." They are looking for a commitment. Then they will try and bump you. Just simply and politely say, "I just want you best price." or better yet "how close to x can you get."

Wholesale financial reserve is a reward Toyota provides dealerships if the customer finances though Toyota. Oh, shop around for the best rate. We had a local credit union at 3.9%. We could not touch that rate even with an 800 Experian. Yes, Toyota uses Experian.

$99 processing fee? You mean a document fee? If you want to really pinch a penny, you can go to a local notary and have the work done for about $5.00.

In such an instance, invoice on the car plus invoice on the options + destination + tax, tags & title + TDA, the state of VA would make more on the Car than the dealership.

The key piece of negotiation would be the holdback. They more than likely will not give up both holdback and financial reserve. Again, this goes back to "I just want you best price." or better yet "how close to x can you get." There is no added cost in special orders upon the dealerships part, just the manager's time.

It all depends on the dealership.

Since you were in business, you will also understand that the salesman works off commission. What you are asking him to do is a "mini." Several dealerships have a flat pay rate for vehicles sold under a certain profit, others do not. So you must consider what is in it for him.

Another big one is the time of month. If you already ordered the car, then you did it at the end of last month, a smart time. The dealership can "punch"* the car as sold and will help them with their numbers. The beginning of the month is not so good for negotiation.

My 2 cents.

*Punching a car tells Toyota it is sold. The vehicle has to be listed in Dealer Daily in "ground" status. Yours obviously will not be in ground status, but if the dealership REALLY needs the numbers, they can punch a like Camry.....

Reply to
bcbuck01

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.