new camrys

The truck is good for one reason. Look at the exact model that I posted. It's an awesome off-road machine. It's not a family car or commuter car or anything other than an incredible weekend trasher machine :)

Reliability isn't a big issue to this crowd - they want functionality to be the primary concern.

And you can still get it in a couple of models, which I listed. :)

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander
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My inlaws just bought a new 05 Camry. Here is a message I got from them yesterday (anyone else know of any steering related issues):

I was driving down Century, went to turn a corner... heard a noise and then the steering froze. I made it over to C's parking lot and called Mike. By the time he got there (like 10 minutes) the front end of the car was sitting in a pool of power steering fluid. Called the dealer, they towed it in...no word on it yet. Mike looked under the hood...the belts are all dislodged on the power steering and one of the pulleys broke off and was laying on the under frame of the car. Not drivable for sure.

Then we follow the tow out to the dealership and the assistant service manager trys to stick me with a DODGE NEON loaner car! I had a fit! Mike had to go get the salesman that sold us the Camry and have him intervene. I finally settled for a Corolla only to get home. The salesman personally drove a rental Camry out to me this afternoon and picked up the Corolla. I am very upset about this Dan......the Camry is only six months old and has less than 5000 miles on it. This assistant service manager is a jerk. The Enterprise rental agent told us after this confrontation was over that what they do is give the owner the cheap ass rental and then stick Toyota with a Camry rental charge. Well he did not get away with it this time. So who knows how long my car is going to be at the dealership. Have you heard anything about 2005 Camry's having problems with their steering?

Reply to
Dan J.S.

What color is the sky in YOUR world? Does this stuff come to you in dreams or do you actually believe some of the stuff you post? LOL

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
IleneDover

And the Japanese lag behind a lot of GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles as well. I E. GM sells 16 models that get 30 MPG or more, so what is you point? ;)

mike hunt

"S.S." wrote:

Reply to
IleneDover

and brake linings, clutches, AC refrigerant, passive restraints...

Reply to
Ray O

I have driven Fords with this engine for a long time. The were ok for a Taurus (yes, just ok) but no way sufficient for a bigger car like this one.

BTW, there were no quality problems with this engine. Because, Ford borrowed it from Yamaha, a Japanese manufacturer!

Reply to
Debasis Goswami

And hard plastics which contribute to interior rattles in many new cars.

Reply to
S.S.

It is not the gas mileage but technology itself in which the Koreans are miles behind the Japanese manufacturers. Additionally, the same problem is with GM and Ford. GM and Ford are plagued with bad management, poor marketing and lack of R&D and as a result losing out to the foreign competitors.

The Koreans are desperately trying to capture the market share by there cost structure alone. It will survive in the long run only if they can hold up in quality. Toyota and Honda still rule in these aspects regardless of small number individual experiences otherwise.

I had to buy a small car recently for my work commute and before I bought a 2005 Corolla, I drove an Elantra. I did not like the Elantra at all. And what is more, in that segment, Corollas are very well equipped now-a-days with good options and a decent handling. I am very happy with the decision made.

BTW, I used to drive Fords for many years before starting to drive Japanese cars recently and I think I waited too long.

Reply to
Debasis Goswami

In addition to the wrong engine, you're way too far back in time. The rest of us are discussing the Duratec V6 (a Ford Engine) not the Yamaha based V6 used ONLY in the SHO Taurus - which you probably haven't ever driven. Get with the program.

Reply to
FanJet

Word has it that Ford had Yamaha de-tune this engine. Its presence in the Taurus was giving the Mustang a run for its money in its original form.

------------------------------------------------ The DNC - Building a bridge to the 20th Century.

Reply to
Eric Dreher

Duratec V6 is not actually a Ford technology as I was informed. Therefore, the argument.

Reply to
Debasis Goswami

Actually, the Duratec 3(and 2.5)L V6 is a Ford designed and manufactured engine so you were misinformed.

Reply to
FanJet

The Koreans today are doing what the Japs did when they entered the US market, copy the engineering advances of other and then built them over seas for less. Worked for the Japs and it is working for the Koreans. The Hyundai was rated the number one entry level car by CR, the bible of Jap car buyers.

Perhaps you should have driven and gotten a drive home price of one of the newer Fords, like the Focus, before you made your buying decision. The Focus is highly rated by all the buff mags, has a better warranty and can be driven home, similarly equipped, for a lot less than the Corolla. ;)

mike hunt

Debases Goswami wrote:

Reply to
RustyFendor

The only thing Yamaha designed and built for Ford were the four came heads, not the engine. One would expect the V8 SHO to out run a Mustang GT, it cost $5,000 more. The truth is it barely out ran the blown 2.3L 4 cy Mustang SVO and did not handle nearly as well because it was FWD. The best SHO was the blown V6 but it too was out performed by the RWD Supercoupe

mike hunt

Eric Dresser wrote:

Reply to
RustyFendor

(Edmunds.com - all manual transmission models) Chevrolet Aveo(Daewoo Kalos)

11.9 Gallon tank EPA Mileage Estimates: 26 mpg / 34 mpg; Range in Miles: 286 mi. / 374 mi. 1.6L 108hp 2364 lbs

Hyundai Accent

11.9 Gallon tank EPA Mileage Estimates: 29 mpg / 33 mpg; Range in Miles: 345.1 mi. / 392.7 mi. 1.6L 104HP 2280 lbs

Toyota Echo

11.9 Gallon tank EPA Mileage Estimates: 35 mpg / 42 mpg; Range in Miles: 416.5 mi. / 499.8 mi. 1.5L 108HP 2105 lbs

Chevy Cavalier

14 Gallon tank EPA Mileage Estimates: 26 mpg / 36 mpg; Range in Miles: 364 mi. / 504 mi. 2.2L 140HP 2676 lbs

Note that the GM 2.2L 140HP engine does the same with fuel as the Aveo and is 300lbs heavier to boot. The Echo whomps on them all - same HP and better city mileage than the Korean copy gets for highway. The Hyundai is even worse. Kia is simmilar.

Speaking of Kia - let's go with big sedans since they often get better hp/weight efficiencies with their larger engines and tall gearing automatics:

Buick LaCrosse(not a Toyota, but a plain old U.S. sedan)

17 Gallon tank EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 27 mpg; Range in Miles: 323 mi. / 459 mi. 3.6L V6 240HP 3568 lbs

Hyundai GX530

18.5 gallon tank. EPA Mileage Estimates: 18 mpg / 26 mpg; Range in Miles: 333 mi. / 481 mi. 3.5L V6 194HP 3651 lbs (the Kia version is much worse, so I left it out)

Or this: Pontiac Grand Prix GTP

17 Gallon tank EPA Mileage Estimates: 19 mpg / 28 mpg; Range in Miles: 323 mi. / 476 mi. 3.8 V6 260HP(!) 3583 lbs

25K in my pocket - kind of a no-brainer between the GX530 and the GTP. 1-2mpg better mileage and 66 more HP at the same time.

Pontiac: Total with Options $30,025 $27,465 $28,155 Incentives & Rebates -$3,500 Customer Cash Adjusted True Market Value $24,655 (this includes $2k or so in normal options)

Total with Options $27,390 $25,118 $25,713 Incentives & Rebates -$3,500 Customer Cash Adjusted True Market Value $22,213 (basic no options model)

22K is pretty cheap for this car.
Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Except... the new Focus isn't a Ford design. Lol. (yes, it's a good little car, btw)

OTOH, 22K after rebates will get to a 260HP V6 sedan that gets 28mpg, so...

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Actually, it is a Ford of Europe design, though the US version is somewhat decontented (and remains on the old platform while the Europeans get to buy a Focus using a new generation of the platform, which is shared by the Mazda 3 and Volvo S40/V50). The new engines (Duratec 20, 20E, and 23) are derived from a design from Ford's Mazda subsidiary.

Reply to
Timothy J. Lee

Like I said what color is the sky in YOUR world? Who do you think designed the Focus? LOL

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

The Focus is highly rated by all the buff mags,

Reply to
RustyFendor

ALL of which are Ford engineered vehicles, no matter which vehicle, or which country with which name plate, they first were offered. ;)

mike hunt

"Timothy J. Lee" wrote:

Reply to
RustyFendor

I've just GOT to agree with you there, Mike.

It's eminently obvious the Focus was designed and built by Ford. ;)

------------------------------------------------ The DNC - Building a bridge to the 20th Century.

Reply to
Eric Dreher

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