New initiate to OIL CHANGE CLUB

Hmm, he sounds more like an Amsoil reseller than anything. Which can be worse than being racist and anti-semetic!

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Mark A., you're quite a little work.

I am *NOT* a racist. I believe all races (black, white, etc.) are equal.

And I'll be voting for Barack Obama in November. Blacks have contributed greatly to America.

Mark A., crawl back into your little hole.

You are a poor excuse for a man.

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....And Mark A., as a Jew, you comprise 2 percent of the U.S. population. You're not cutting off anybody. We welcome you. Jews have also contributed greatly to America.

But you're a slimy little fart.

His race is immaterial. He wasn't my first choice, I preferred John Edwards, but there is no way I'm voting for John McCain.

There he goes again with thinly veiled Anti-Semitism. The thing that gives it away is that he accuses people of being a "Jew" (obviously a derogatory comment in the context of his post) who are not even Jewish.

SMS, please do not respond to his posts. Even though we all have differences of opinion, there is no place for tolerating someone like Built_Well.

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SMS, while I understand the perspective you're coming from in recommending API-certified oils, the API standard is not the be-all end-all.

Red Line is another great oil that is /not/ API- certified. And I think we've all heard of Red Line. They advertise on national tv regularly. Like Amsoil, Red Line is hard to find. You'll likely have to order it online, or contact a distributor/re-seller. In addition to RedLineOil.com, you can find some at Jegs.com and Summit, too.

As good as the API and ACEA standards are, European automobile manufacturers like VW/Audi issue oil standards that extend beyond API SM and ACEA, for example. So again, API and its European counterpart ACEA are not the be-all, end-all.

Folks with performance engines in $200,000 sports cars put non-certified API oils like Red Line, Amsoil, and RLI into their motors all the time. I will be trying Amsoil next, followed by RLI. I've heard just incredible things about RLI (Renewable Lube, Inc.), and can barely wait for my Camry to guzzle down some of that sweet juice :-)

Here's a testimonial from Doctor A. E. Haas, the author of that motor oils FAQ I've posted a link to several times:

Folks often ask what oil/oils have made your engine more quiet. Dr. Haas answers:

"I changed the OEM Agip 5W-40 to 0W-30 Mobil 1 in the Ferrari Murcielago and the engine was more quiet. Later I changed to 5W-20 Red Line and it was even more quiet.

"Since my move to 0W-20 RLI the engine is now silent. Even my wife who did not want me to change the Red Line she loves, noticed the silence.

"The Enzo went from the 60 grade Shell to 0W-30 Castrol GC and no major difference was noted. After going to the 0W-30 RLI it is now almost silent, a big difference.

In general the use of a thicker grade will muffle sounds. This does not tell you anything about the oil's function. But going thinner and being more quiet can only be from increased oil function." [End Quote]

By function, I suppose Dr. Haas means higher quality and better-made. Just because an oil has API-certification does not mean it's high quality. Dr. Haas put lower viscosity (or so-called thinner) oils into his motors but the motors got progressively quieter, just the opposite of what one would expect to happen. So we can safely assume the oils are higher quality and better-made, even though they're not API-certified.

For the average guy who doesn't know what he's doing, I agree with you: he should stick to only API-certified oils. But for those who do just a little reading, learning, and research, they can choose high-quality non-API certified oils :-)

Someone online mentioned they're using Red Line 5w-30 in a 2005 Toyota Sequoia.

The Sequoia must still be under drive train warranty, and Red Line is not API-certified ;-) but it is a fine oil, much better than many API-certified oils. To quote Dr. Haas again:

"I changed the OEM Agip 5W-40 to 0W-30 Mobil 1 in the Lamborghini Murcielago and the engine was more quiet. Later I changed to 5W-20 Red Line and it was even more quiet.

"Since my move to 0W-20 RLI the engine is now silent. Even my wife who did not want me to change the Red Line she loves, noticed the silence."

Incidentally, I need to make a correction. In my original posting I mistakenly described the Murcielago as a Ferrari; it's a Lamborghini. I didn't know what a Murcielago was, and thought others might not too. I figured it was either a Ferrari or a Lambo, so I added the descriptor. In the earlier post, I should have placed [Ferrari] in [brackets] to indicate it was my edited addition.

I've found lots of mentions of folks using high-quality non-API certified oils in vehicles that are *still* under drive train warranty, even a vehicle as staid and new as an '08 Sienna. I guess they're not worried about the oils possibly violating warranty (and some of the oils even differ in viscosity from the manual).

I, however, will be sticking with the same 30-weight as recommended in my manual--just switching up from

5w-30 to 0w-30 for better cold starts and warm-ups.

By the way, the IP number you see in my headers that never changes is a UNIX shell account located in Nebraska that I log into from Missouri. I log into that Nebraska UNIX account no matter what computer I'm at.

...'till next time. - Built_Well

Guess what I saw today at Walmart. One-quart bottles of 0w-30 Mobil 1 that had the following exact sentence written in big letters at the top of the bottle:

"Exceeds 5w-30 and 10w-30 warranty requirements"

This is the new green bottle of Mobil 1 with the green top; the viscosity is 0w-30. Some of you have probably seen it.

I don't want to good-naturedly raz you Ray O :-) but several months ago when I first said I was considering using 0w-30, you were seriously cautioning me against using any grade other than the 5w-30 grade called for in my manual. Don't even try 0w-30 was your sentiment.

Well, Ray O, it looks like Mobil 1 agrees with the good Doctor Haas, who has been advocating the use of 0w-30 oils in place of 5w-30 and 10w-30 for a long time. I've mentioned Dr. Haas's FAQ here many times, and have provided a link.

I'll quote the *0w-30* Mobil 1 bottle again:

"Exceeds 5w-30 and 10w-30 warranty requirements"

[chuckle] :-P

Don't feel bad Ray O. There's no doubt that you are an expert when it comes to Toyotas and an expert when it comes to mechanics, with all the certifications you have worked hard to earn, but you are not a tribologist/oil expert :-P

Nobody can be an expert at everything, even though you come close.

I'll have to check out Mobil 1 0W-30's claims some time. A blanket statement like that implies that they have studied the warranty requirements for every automaker, for every engine, for every model year, which is difficult to believe.

"Built_Well" ...

So we are to now understand that you are now the mocking expert on oils since you have read a few articles and oil cans?

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SMS, you're a bit mistaken my good buddy. It's *not* API (the American Petroleum Institute) that limits the phosphorous level from ZDDP to 800 ppm (parts per million) in oil.

You may find this hard to believe, but there are oils that have 1000 ppm and even 1200 ppm of phosphorous from ZDDP that *are* certified by the API at the SM level: API SM certified.

For examples, Mobil 1 0w-40 has 1000 ppm of phosphorous and it enjoys API SM certification. So does Mobil 1 5w-50. Mobil 1 15w-50 even has 1200 ppm , and still it is API SM certified.

It's not API that restricts phosphorous. It's ILSAC in their GF-4 specification.

This also calls into question the authenticity of the email from the so-called Amsoil representative you proffered, since the supposed Amsoil rep also says it's the API that restricts phosphorous to 800 ppm.

If you need proof that the API does not restrict phosphorous to 800 ppm, look at this .pdf document from Mobil 1's web site that shows the ppm level of phosphorous from ZDDP in their oils and also shows the certifications each oil enjoys.

I'll also quote the Mobil 1 site:

"The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than

800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications; see the attached .PDF table at

And here's the link to the above Mobil 1 quotation:

Gee, for being experts, you guys sure do make a lot of mistakes -- from the extreme dangers of 0w-30 to phantom API regulations [chuckle] :-P

:-P

This will get 20% better gas mileage, too!

The vehicle manufacturer decides what meets the warranty requirements, not Mobil, not Amsoil.

During the warranty period you don't want to give the manufacturer even the slightest pretense on which to deny warranty service. If you do use a non-API oil, or an oil other than what's stated in the manual, then make sure there's no evidence of it on your receipts that you will have to present in the case of any engine failure, whether the failure was related to the oil or not.

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That's good advice, SMS.

By the way, my local Toyota dealer is so busy, they're advertising on TV now that the service department has extended its hours. 7 AM to 7 PM now on some weekdays, and 7 AM to

4:30 PM on Saturdays.

That was the only thing the commercial advertised: longer service hours. Didn't mention a thing about coming in and buying a car--just said we got longer hours now!

Machens Toyota spent money just to let people know they've extended hours.

As vehicle sales (new and used) go down, dealers have to rely more on their service and parts departments to cover their fixed costs. The service department sells labor hours, and within a given facility, there is a limit to how many hours they have available to sell. A way to increase the available hours to sell is to longer hours.