New Vehicle Oil Change?

No it is not necessary. If you are little paranoid, change after 2500 miles, then change again after 7500 miles. Switch to full synthetic after 7500 miles (you will not regret it).

When you acquire your shiny new $30,000 toy, you might think twice before simply tossing that owner's manual into the trash.

After that, you might think twice about actually opening it up and reading it. I know, I know--you're a he-man, and you know how to drive a car. You don't need no stinkin' manual. That's what they all say.

Then they come to places like this and ask sipid questions like, "When should I change my oil?" and "How do I reset the maintenance required light?" and "What are those funny red buttons down there by the door handle?"

Too true, Elmo. After I bought my '03 Avalon, I noticed that the windshield wipers didn't seem to be seated low enough in the gap between the hood and windshield, and I thought I'd have to remove them and reinstall. But fortunately I remembered the manual (RTFM!) and found that this car had an unusual feature, the ability to seat the wipers above the gap in case of snow falling in the gap and freezing the wipers in the low position, so following the instructions, I simply pushed down hard on the wiper bracket, and VOILA! they popped downward into the gap! problem solved.

I think he should change it the first time he puts gas in it, and then add a quart every time he adds gas...

Read the owner's manual. Doing this is a waste of oil. In the old days, this was a good idea. The way the engines are made today, not only is this a waste of oil and a filter, but, if the engine makers puts in a break-in oil, you lose the benefit of the break-in oil.

The best advice is from the people who make the engines, so read the owner's manual.

Jeff

Thanks for the great advice Elmo. Go tickle yourself.

You may not like the way he said it, but read your owner's manual from cover to cover. And follow their maintenance advice. They know more about the car than anyone else.

Jeff

What, you don't like being outed as one of those he-men types who throw the manual in the trash and then come here expecting others to give it to you for free, on demand?

Dude, it's probably jim beam trying to bait me again...

I figured it out this morning...

Agreed, and will do / have started to do. I've worked in the auto industry in the past as well as the fact that I work in the machining industry now where tolerances of 0.0005" are used daily... I came looking for thoughts and/or current thinking on a particular subject that has been discussed for years and years. Instead, got attitude from some.

Advice is welcome anytime as is disagreement. However, idiocracy is a sign of the times in newsgroups and was not really a problem until maybe 5-7 years ago. It was always present, but now it seems to be dominant at times. With my posts, it is either met with kill file action or a suitable response - depending on how much the person impresses me with their ramblings.

He-men... As in Skeletor's emery?

The manual is golden on many things and marketing hype on many things. The trick is to know the difference. I don't know 100% whether the thoughts on a quick oil change are legitimate so I figured I'd ask for advice. Your post, however, showed you simply came along looking for a way to out your innermost desires to clear your mind of some nonsense.

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

IMO, you should ignore all future advice from whoever told you to change the oil in the first 50 miles because the source of their advice is suspect.

Follow the maintenance schedule in your owner's manual for best and cost-effective results. Changing the oil too early can interfere with engine break-in.

I hear this all the time and as a machinist-of-sorts working with tolerances at a higher level than Toyota, I wonder why or how this might be true...

What would or could it interfere with? All I can think of is that maybe the first batch of oil with the micro-residue from break-in sets the seals in a certain way or maybe makes sure the rings are running on a surface in a manner that "seats" them better.. To much proper lubrication can cause too little break in when it is desired, but I would think an early oil change would simply delay the break-in and remove possible large contaminants that would possibly cause undesirable side effects.

After all, a 2008 bought now could have been sitting in the lot for up to a year without being run and the condensation alone inside an aluminum block could cause some residue to be in the oil that has nothing to do with break-in..

I was hoping maybe someone could cite a report or long-term experience (like a 2008 with 20,000+ miles on it)

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Your thoughts are on the right track. Changing the oil early can delay break-in and prevent proper piston ring-to-bore fit.

Since you are familiar with machining, you know that modern machine tools can achieve a cylinder bore finish that used to be possible only by grinding with a jig borer - almost mirror-like, yet automakers purposely leave a fine cross-hatch finish on the cylinder walls. The ridges on the cross-hatch and very fine particles suspended in the motor oil help the piston rings seat properly, and after the cross-hatch has worn off, piston ring seating slows down greatly. If the rings do not seat properly, you get more blow-by, reduced power, and greater oil consumption

Conventional wisdom used to call for a very early oil change to remove metal particles large enough to damage the engine, but modern oil filters trap that stuff so very early oil changes are no longer necessary or even desireble.

What is jig borer. I looked on wikipedia, but didn't get a good explanation. When I worked for my father, who used to rebuild engines, I bored quite a few cylinder blocks and honed the cylinders to get a cross-hatch. However, the boring equipment was completely different that what they use in the factories.

How, exactly? I would think that the cross hatches cause the piston rings to rotate slightly as the pistons go up and down. I would imagine this helps them get seated properly. I understand your explanation below, but what exactly seat properly mean? I would think it means that the rings are fully expanded against the cylinder walls, so that there is not a gap that the gases (both exhaust and unburned gases during the compression stroke). Is this correct?

Don't change it until the time and mileage recommended by the owner's manual. Engines are cleaned much better at the factory than they used to be, and you don't want to end up with a stuck piston ring that will make the engine burn a quart of oil every 1000 miles forever.

The closest analogy I can think of for a jig borer is a stand-type kitchen mixer, but instead of a whisk that is spinning, there is a grinding wheel. The grinding wheel is spinning on its axis while at the same time, the wheel is rotating like a planet around the sun and also moving up and down so that the grinding wheel contacts the length and circumference of the bore. Grinding achieves a much smoother finish than machining with a bit with flutes, and in the case of engines, a jig borer is not used because the finish is too smooth. The machine shop I worked in while I was in college used a jig borer in the holes where carbide inserts were fitted.

Engine factories use machining centers with automatic tool changers to machine the castings.

The cross hatches might make the rings rotate if they were in a spiral shape, but since they go in two directions, the rings don't rotate. Also, the compression from the gases expand the rings and force them against the cylinder walls, and the pressure keeps them from rotating.

What is a "machinist-of-sorts"???

Thanks for the reply.

I didn't mean that the rings would rotate in a circle, but rather, move back and forth. I bet around 1990, there was some really interesting engineering and computer modeling that went on to understand this.

Jeff