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Forget answering the question about recalibrating torque wrenches. I just read Tegger's informative FAQ on torquers. $75 to re-calibrate one! Like Tegger, I'll just buy a new one.

Tegger, a lot of people have spun loose that model 44595 from Sears. So I don't think it's your fault for damaging your original. Read the reviews for that wrench at sears.com. Whole bunch of folks complaining about that torquer.

Reply to
Built_Well
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You said you did not understand why the Toyota manual recommends lowering the car completely before final tightening of the lugnuts, while another source said to tighten when the tires are barely touching the ground, but still on the jacks.

I explained the difference, and why each made the recommendation they did, and you say that I am playing rhetorical games? No, I am explaining the difference to you in a most logical manner. Hopefully you will try a bit harder to understand the differences and move on to another subject.

Reply to
Mark A

No argument from me there!

I forgot about SK tools - they seem to be pretty decent, along with Proto (are they still around?).

I am too, although I think Cobalt is Lowe's house brand. Some seem to be decent, I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same supplier as Craftsman tools.

Reply to
Ray O

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I don't accept your explanation. For one thing, you were incredibly rude a few weeks ago. Secondly, your explanation isn't adequate.

Reply to
Built_Well

I'm not sure how long of a handle you ar looking for, but my Craftsman long-handled combination wrenches work well, and they are polished like Snap-On.

Reply to
Ray O

The fact that you don't understand my post does not mean I am rude.

Secondly, whether or not I am rude, has nothing to do with the adequacy of my answer. BTW, my answer is correct, despite you inability understand it (this time I will be rude).

Reply to
Mark A

If you have an impact wrench you can get well past "snug" with the car up on jackstands fairly safely, but I'd still wait till the car is back on the ground and use a torque wrench to bring the lug nuts up to their final torque.

If you are doing it with a hand lug wrench or hand torque wrench (even with the wheels "held" with a park pawl or parking brake or engine in gear) DO NOT try torquing the lugs with the car in the air. Get them snug, then lower the car to finish.

You put a lot of force into the lug wrench, and if the jackstands are the least bit unstable any lateral movement can easily make the car fall off the stands. And if nothing else, it will mess up the bodywork around the lifting points where the jackstands were placed.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

The only people who recalibrate tools like that are doing things like Aircraft 'Airframe & Powerplant' repair, where all test equipment and tools have to carry traceable metrology tags to prove they work.

And they start off with the more expensive wrenches that come with a factory metrology certificate to cover the first inspection period. They aren't buying the $20 wrenches at Harbor Freight.

This explains one of the reasons why it costs so much more to get an aircraft engine fixed, they have to figure that $75 fee per torque wrench (and they will have 4 or 5 of them for different torque values) every two or three years (as needed) into their overhead.

And better yet, they have to have at least one extra set of torque wrenches to keep working with while one set is being sent out...

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

Another reason for the expense of getting an airplane fixed is that almost every part on a commercial airplane must have a serial number or lot number, and it must be tracked from the part manufacturer to the plane it is used on. This includes replacement parts. This also includes all the parts in subsystems such as radio's, and other electronic equipment used in an airplane.

Reply to
Mark A

The Kobalt torque wrench at Lowe's for $90 is made in the U.S.A., though there are other Kobalt products made in China. Danaher (a U.S. company) currently makes the Kobalt torquer you can get at Lowe's. I can't say who makes the faulty Sears Craftsman 44595 that so many of us have.

Reply to
Built_Well

The horse is not only dead, it's rotting and covered with maggots. =8^0

Reply to
B A R R Y

I agree with most of your points, but the shops that maintain my Beechcraft, as well as the Lycoming out front, charge less per hour than the auto shops I use for major work. The difference is a good 25%. All of the auto mechanics I know have a much better standard of living than the non-airline employed A&P's.

The extra expense on the bottom line is more related to required inspections and tests at annual than shop charges, and the added IA sign-off charges.

I do my own minor auto work, as well as what the FAA allows me to do on the aircraft.

Reply to
B A R R Y

Don't do it, check your own. All you need is a lever arm and a calibrated weight (and you can use a jug of water for the weight). If you neglect the weight of the arm, you just multiply the length of the arm by the mass of the weight and you get torque. A couple pieces of wood, some string, and a water jug will do the job within a couple percent.

Check your calibration once a year.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

I want longer than Craftsman makes. Say, a quarter-inch with an 18-inch handle to begin with. I got a 5/8" one...

I don't care how well they are polished, I care how well they are hardened. They can look like crap as long as they don't wear out or break.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Last time I wrote that the Kobalt torque wrench at Lowe's is made by Danaher. I don't know if the Kobalts used to be made by Snap-On at one time, but if you go to Lowe's today, and look at the packaging of the Kobalt 1/2-inch 150 foot-pound torquer, you'll see it has Danaher on the packaging.

I think Proto tools are made by Stanley.

Stanley might also make /some/ of the Craftsman, Matco, and Mac tools.

Here's some info written by Mech1 on the LS1tech.com forum:

"WOW! it sounds like some people need to do some research on the tools they use or plan to purchase. First off Proto is a product of Stanley. And no they are not the plain stanley tools made in china like they sell at wal-mart. To me Proto is as good as it gets. They are put through more testing b/c they are industrial tools used by NASA, the military, and other industries. I am a mech in the coal and oil industry. If you have ever been to either i build the dryers & shakers and stuff. You will hardly ever go to the tool room of a wash plant and find a Snap-On or Craftsman tool.

Reply to
Built_Well

Here's a couple more choice pieces from that torque wrench discussion:

"Never use your torque wrench to loosen a bolt, that's not what it was designed for. Even if the wrench is designed to be used in the CCW direction, it will cause excess wear on the internals."

"....Extreme cold and hot temperatures will throw off their accuracy."

"Craftsman wrenches, especially the type with the setting window were absolute junk. Not only did most of them not meet their specs out of the box, but they would not adjust within specs on the high and low end of the scale. They were typically non-linear (low on the low setting, and high on the high setting) which resulted in having to send them back to Sears for replacement. And lots of torque wrenches are not accurate out of the box. They actually need re-calibrating before you even use it for the first time!"

"....If you hold the wrench by a part other than the center of the handle (like the metal body, or if you are for some reason using a pipe to extend the handle) it can throw off the accuracy greatly. Any kind of extension will reduce the applied torque value due to flex, and also extreme cold and hot temperatures will throw off their accuracy."

Here's LS1's complete post:

"I've been a Calibration Technician for almost 8 year now. During that time I've verified the accuracy of and repaired/adjusted hundreds of torque wrenches in both the military and civilian sectors. Here are my comments based on what I've experienced:

Snap-On makes a very durable torque wrench that can be accurate and remain so after it is adjusted correctly. They tend to be reliable over time, but I would not trust the accuracy of the wrench when it is first purchased. Most of the wrenches that we cal'd for the Air Force were spec'd at +/-4% CW and +/-6% CCW, and I would say that only about 50% of them met this spec out of the box. After we adjusted them initially to our CDI standard, they held the adjustment great and performed accurately. Almost all of these were the click-type.

Craftsman wrenches, especially the type with the setting window were absolute junk. Not only did most of them not meet their specs out of the box, but they would not adjust within specs on the high and low end of the scale. They were typically non-linear (low on the low setting, and high on the high setting) which resulted in having to send them back to Sears for replacement.

I don't remember having too many problems with Proto wrenches... nothing that stands out in my mind anyways.

I have only dealt with two Husky wrenches, both were 250# click-types. I bought one and my brother-in-law bought one from Home Depot at the same time. I checked the accuracy of both of them before use, and they were both within

2% CW, I didn't check either of them CCW since we weren't going to use them in that direction. I pulled my wrench out of the shed where it had been sitting for 2 years without being used, and took it in to work to make sure it was still accurate and found that the handle retaining nuts had come loose so the handle was spinning freely instead of adjusting the torque setting. The fix was as simple as jamming a flat-headed screwdriver inside the back of the handle to hold the nut in place, then back the Allen head adjustment screw out against it. This tightened it back up so I could set the torque, so I checked the accuracy and it is still within +/-2%!. I think we paid $40 each for these wrenches, and they're one of the best values I have found yet.

The beam style wrenches are usually very accurate throughout their useable lives, but are not always the easiest to use. No wrench can be expected to be more accurate than its manufacturer's specifications though, even though some of them are.

For storage purposes with all torque wrenches, you should return the wrench to its lowest setting before putting it away. There is a spring inside that can get damaged if you don't.

Never use your torque wrench to loosen a bolt, that's not what it was designed for. Even if the wrench is designed to be used in the CCW direction, it will cause excess wear on the internals. Why not use a cheap breaker bar that has no accuracy requirements instead?

I personally will never again use a Husky TQ wrech due to the awful accuracy of the units I have personally handled. Out of curiosity, how did you verify the accuracy of your Husky torque wrenches? Based on their constuction and the readings that I've taken with mine and my brother-in-law's torque wrench, they should be pretty reliable and accurate.

There are several factors related to the way it is used that can influence the accuracy of a torque wrench. If you aren't holding the handle level while trying to tighten the fastener, I've seen it throw off readings by 10-15%. Also if you hold the wrench by a part other than the center of the handle (like the metal body, or if you are for some reason using a pipe to extend the handle) it can throw off the accuracy greatly. Any kind of extension will reduce the applied torque value due to flex, and also extreme cold and hot temperatures will throw off their accuracy.

Torque wrenches should definitely have their accuracy verified on a regular interval though. Most of our customers use a 12 month interval, people who use them very often might use a 6 month interval, and most of the Air Force departments sent theirs in every 3 months! Verifying accuracy is important for all measuring tools though, torque wrenches, DMMs, oscilloscopes, etc.

Let me know if you have any other questions! I covered everything that came to the top of my mind. :cheers:

Reply to
Built_Well

You know, if you had gotten a job at McDonalds flipping burgers, and only worked the number of hours you have spent posting about the merits of various tools on this newsgroup, then you could have purchased the finest and most expensive tools available with the minimum wage salary you would have earned.

In other words, you have beat this subject to death.

Reply to
Mark A

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Is that right, Mark A.?

Mark, I just wanted to wish you a Happy Hanukkah two months early. I know that I celebrate Christmas, and you celebrate Chanukah, but there's no reason we can't wish each other happy holidays.

Reply to
Built_Well

I don't recall ever seeing a quarter inch wrench with an 18 inch handle in the Craftsman or Snap-on catalog :-(

I prefer polished wrenches because they are easier to wipe clean, not because of appearance or any advantage the polished finish offers.

Reply to
Ray O

As tempted as I am by the 3-ton Husky floor jack at Home Depot, I think I'll buy the Michelin floor jack at Sam's Club. Although the Husky raises to 21 inches (every other floor jack in the $40 price range raises no higher than 15.5 inches and no more than 2.5 tons), the Husky has a small saddle.

The drawback to the 3.5-ton Michelin is it's not easily transportable in a car like the Husky, but at $65 it's too much of a good deal to pass up. This Michelin jack would easily sell for double the price anywhere else. The Michelin has lots of quality features like raising to its full height of 22 inches in one pull of the lever. It also has a large-diameter saddle and a hard-plastic pad that fits into the saddle to protect your car's metal from scratching.

Remember, some of us have to work on our cars away from our apartment parking lots because the lease contract forbids car work in the lot. To transport the really heavy, sturdy Michelin to the car, I guess I'll place it on top of the mechanics creeper I bought in the early 1990's but haven't used underneath a car even once yet. (It didn't make as good a kinky sex toy as I thought it would.)

You gotta see the quality that went into making this Michelin floor jack. I'll earn back my $40 Sam's Club membership fee this year by buying this product alone for $65. Not to mention all the money I'm saving on weight-lifting Protein Powder at Sam's. This store is wonderful!

Reply to
Built_Well

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