Prius recall

I accept everything you wrote as true, Mike. It's also true that I'm so happy with my Prius as a vehicle -- thrifty or not -- that when my Avalon is used up we'll become a 2-Prius family. I don't present myself as the average buyer, merely as one for whom the Prius is perfect. I'm glad there are enough like me that Toyota found it feasible to create it and market it.

I'm also happy that you and the majority of buyers have a wide choice of alternatives.

Brent

One or two problems with your analysis: 1. the corolla and the prius are not equivalent vehicles, I wanted a hatchback. Only equivalent was the Matrix which was okay, but it doesn't get the mileage of a Corolla, so that probably breaks the argument even farther.

1. Anybody who trades cars every 3-4 years is screwing themselves into the ground.

Me2 I believe buyers should buy any vehicle they can afford with their own money ;)

mike hunt

You are entitled to you own opinion. I prefer to buy new every two years. The only cost I have is fuel, three or four oil changes and one state inspection. Some of the vehicles I buy even include free scheduled maintenance. Other than that my average cost to buy another new vehicle has been between $3,000, and $4,000 per year, about what it would cost to buy and keep those same 30K to 40K vehicles for ten years, that may well become problematic, and to replace them with similar vehicles at that time, which will then cost 40K to 50K

mike hunt

Oh! If the Corolla is equivalent to a prius apart from the body style then I should point out that in most of the Globe the Corolla is available as a hatchback with versions available as three and five doors as well as raised 'verso' and station wagon versions. European hatch and verso models are made in the UK or Japan while the saloon is made in Turkey. The saloon is probably outsold by in excess of 10:1 by the hatch versions. I cannot honestly say that I have noticed a single saloon version on the road. Try this site for comparisons. Enter Corolla and Prius T3 hatches to compare. Fuel consumption is not recorded but the physical magazine quotes official EEC figures of 76hp 85lbsft for Prius and 89hp 140lbsft for the

Fuel consumption Prius 65.7/UKgallon Corolla 58.9/UKgallon Official extra urban figures 67.3 to 65.7.

Nothing in it really. Except that the diesel uses proven technology with low long term maintenance and proven high resale value together with a very long driving range on each tank of fuel. The prius wins marginally in having low vehicle exhaust emission, but only just and only when new. There has recently been a test conducted in the USA comparing the efficiency of the latest MClass diesel with the Lexus RX400hybrid. The diesel won convincingly in real life driving conditions. In similar mixed driving conditions, the difference between Prius and Corolla diesel would also be likely to be reversed especially in flat areas.

Huw

"Huw" wrote

woops.

Then I'd like to see an auto manufacturer bring out a diesel hybrid.

I don't believe it.

What did you buy, when did you buy it, what did it cost, when did you replace it, what did you replace it with and what did you sell it for?

Be specific.

You've been telling us that you're selling your two-year old cars to your various children and grandchildren. See your own response to:

"Gas Prices making a dent ... finally!" 10/5/05, 5:42PM

Are you charging your descendants top trade-in prices? Are you charging them what a dealer would give you on a trade?

You've just got to remember one thing, 2 + 2 = 5, for larger values of "2",

"DH" wrote >>

So far hybrids are mainly of interest in the USA because clean diesels using clean diesel fuel are already well established eco kings elsewhere. Should hybrids catch on in a significant way elsewhere then it is probable that diesel variants would be developed.

Huw

That is really hard to believe. You are implying that your new $35K vehicle only depreciates about $7000 over two years in trade-in price on a an equivalent replacement.

Merritt

Hybrid technology featuring a diesel engine would still be of interest because of the regenerative braking. There are a LOT of stoplights in my town. While a simple diesel powertrain would offer improved fuel economy over gas, being able to recapture the car's kinetic energy at each red light and use it on the next green light would probably improve stop-and-go fuel economy performance by a lot.

It just kills me to use the brakes - all that beautiful m(v**2) lost as heat!

I don't really think the two are equivalent, I suspect the Corolla doesn't have the rear leg room of the prius, although I'm too lazy to do the research right now. Besides that, the Corolla is not sold as a hatchback here.

Mike I was in Victoria, BC earlier this year and noticed that a lot Prius's were being used as taxis. While an individual might be swayed by advertising, or fads, I'd guess taxi companies do the math. I assume the excellent in-town gas mileage of the hybrid Prius cancelled out your objections. What do you think?

Ed

: "Chris Hill" wrote: : I don't really think the two are equivalent, I suspect the Corolla : doesn't have the rear leg room of the prius, although I'm too lazy to : do the research right now. Besides that, the Corolla is not sold as a : hatchback here.

Same here. Arguing a Corolla to a Prius is like comparing a Land Rover to a Hummer H-1.

If I wanted better fuel savings I'd by some $5000 Trek Lance Armstrong signature bicycle. Maybe I could make the same correlation then?

Mack

I could not care less what you chose to believe. Apparently you are not a very astute buyer. One can always buy a new vehicle for less without a trade, and one can always sell their used vehicle for more than any dealer will offer. As to what I buy, currently I have been buying a convertible and a luxury car every two years, for around $200 over invoice ;)

mike hunt

"Chris Hill" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

I've done it both ways. And been unhppy both ways.A couple of times I made out very well trading cars after one year (1996 Explorer, 1981 Plymouth). A few of times I got burned trying to dump a car after just a few years ('78 Ford Fairmont, '83 Mazda 626, '81 Audi Coupe). I had very good luck with some long term cars ('72 Pinto, '78 Fiesta, '97 Expedition, '92 F150) and bad luck with others ('75 Datsun 280Z, '83 Toyota Cressida). Probably my worst case new car was the '83 626. Within a week of buying the car, I was giving myself a dope slap for buying it. I positively hated the car. Fortunately my Sister actually liked it, so we made a deal. I took a bath on the resale value, but at least I got her old Fiesta to use while I shopped for a replacement. I ended up driving the Fiesta for another 4 years (an awesome little car - except for no A/C). In the end I felt bad about selling my Sister the car. It later developed serious engine problems.

I think whether you keep a car for a long time or not depends on more than just straight economics. I wanted out of the Mazda at almost any cost. I just hated the car. I wanted to keep my '86 Sable forever (still the best car I ever owned), but I do a lot of highway driving and at the time had two children that frequently had to go with me. Despite an excellent reliability history, I just could not see routinely driving hundreds of miles with two young children in a 10 year old car with 140,000 miles on the odometer. So I sold it to a co-worker. He drove it another 100,000 before stuffing it into a tree. I always felt like I should have kept it. I traded off the '97 Expedition for similar reasons (150,000 miles) plus the 2003 had features I wanted (IRS, fold flat rear seat, better mileage, more power). Still after 5 years and 150,000 miles the 1997 Expedition still had good trade-in value (I wish the 2003 was worth as much today....). And the F150 has been great. Very few problems. I actually want to replace it, but nothing out there excites me. It is a work truck and a lot of the reasons I might dump a personal car just don't apply. I like driving newer cars. I am willing to pay a slight price premium to do so. I know from personal experience that I become disenchanted with most new cars after a couple of years. If I could trade a car for 66% of the price I paid for it after 2 years, I'd trade it in a heart beat. The Sable is the only car I owned for more than five years that I did not want to get rid of.

Ed

Over long term and with high mileage accumulations that may well be. However my post was referring to the wisdom of purchasing a hybrid by the average new car buyer in the US, that replaces their vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with 30K top 45K on the clock

mike hunt

I don't know about over two years, but I have had two vehicles that did very well when trading after 1 year. In the fall of 1980 I purchased a 1981 Plymouth Reliant (special ordered). I loved the way the car drove, but hated the way it was in the shop monthly. I drove it about 18,000 miles in 10 months. I traded it on a 1981 Audi Coupe. I got within $500 of my original purchase price (not including taxes) for a trade in value. Of course 1981 was a high inflation year. I think Chrysler had raised prices on similar cars by over $1000 over the year. In late 1995 I purchase a 1996 Explorer. I liked the Explorer, but decided I needed more room for the kids and soccer equipment and decided to order an Expedition. I advertised the Explorer in the local paper and sold it the first day. I originally paid around $26,000 for the vehicle and sold it for $23,000 with 32,000 on the odometer 13 months later.

If I could routinely and EASILY duplicate those percentages, I'd never drive a three year old car. Maybe Mike can. The biggest deterrent to my driving a new car every year is the sales process. I hate dealing with car salesmen and I also hate selling used cars to private individuals. The alternate of trading in a used car is usually a loser, but in several cases I have traded a car in just to avoid selling it myself even though I knew I was losing hundred or thousands of dollars. Driving a car into the ground is the best way to avoid dealing with the car sales process. But then you are exposed to the car repair industry. Fortunately I can handle most of my own repairs (and do). So in the end, for me, driving an older car is just a way to avoid car salesmen and used car Customers. It is not the money, it is the pain of the sales process that keeps me in an older car than I want to be in.

Ed