I test drove the Prius for the first time yesterday. I was impressed with the smooth acceleration and the spaciousness of the design. I have a couple of problems with it, however, and would like to know how owners have felt about them after living with them. First, the rear window split and the poor visibility out of the back is very annoying and a serious concern. Since the car will end up likely being used by my son who will be driving in the fall, I am concerned about the poor visibility for a new driver. For me it would be an annoyance at best, for an inexperienced teen driver, I wonder if it is unwise. The split rear window is really annoying as well. Second, the wind noise on the wipers is very noticeable. This might be due to the fact that the engine noise is lower and it is just more noticeable, but it seems like they should have extended the hood a bit to deflect air over the wiper assemblies. Finally, the distance of the steering wheel and pedals from the seat seems a bit out of whack. I felt a bit stretched out and I am
6' tall. I wonder how my shorter son and wife will feel driving it for a distance.
We are considering it because we like the fuel economy and low emissions, but it seems that the premium paid for these may not justify the car, given my reservations and the fact that the room and gee-whiz technology are not important factors. I also think that the design is rather strained. Seems like they were trying too hard to make it different. The small windows in front of the doors seem like a waste to me and the geometry of the dash/steering column/driver interface is odd.
Anyone have any experience with the Civic Hybrid? The fuel economy is less than impressive. Maybe we'll end up with a Scion or a Matrix and save the $$$.
I'd still like to hear the upside perspective from the Prius owners. The temptation to go with the cleaner, more efficient vehicle is still great.
This is pretty obvious advice. The point of my concern is that a novice driver might not know that he is having a problem with visibility and I am asking actual owners if the matter is a significant one. I would never buy a car without having all the drivers in the family test drive it and experience it first hand.
I did not ask for solutions regarding the wind noise, just some input from users as to whether it is bothersome in the context of actual use and perhaps not greater than other cars. I said that I supect that may be the case, as the engine noise is lower than with other cars. The noise is clearly from the wiper assy, as it changes as you operate the wipers.
Again, obvious and patronizing advice. I asked for perpectives from actual users. Test driving a car is not like driving it a distance. It is hard to know if comfort will be maintained. Before I bought it we would drive it more extensively. Still, actual user perspective is useful. Do you own one? If so, what is your experience?
If you read the post, I said that the room is not that big a factor and that the Scion is a consideration for exactly the reason that the cost of the Prius may not justify the environmental advantage.
I gave the opinion of this eye. I find the styling awkward.
I find posts like yours quite useless. You failed to give your opinion nor any information that was not in the post that I made or obvious otherwise. The tone is patronizing. If you have an opinion from actual use I am interested, but you did not indicate that you are an owner or not.
My recommendation would be to have everyone who is going to drive the vehicle take it for a test drive to see if they are comfortable driving, paying attention to driving position and visibility. This applies to any vehicle you buy, not just a Prius.
Second,
I doubt if there is much you can do about the wind noise. Without seeing wind tunnel test results, this is just a guess but I'd bet the wipers are not the source of the noise. The shape of the front suggests that the wipers are in a low pressure area and the noise you're hearing is the wind exiting the engine compartment.
Finally, the distance of the steering wheel and pedals
Like I suggested above, have everyone drive it to see how things fit.
If fuel economy and interior room are important factors, you may want to try the Echo, Scion xA and Scion xB. They are reasonably roomy inside and get good fuel mileage using conventional technology at a lower acquisition price.
I also think that the design is rather strained. Seems
Styling and beauty are in the eye of the beholder. The overall shape of the Prius suggest that aerodynamics were a primary concern. Moving the exterior mirrors back from the front corner gets them further from a high pressure area, the fore-aft swale in the hood allows decent headroom while allowing air to pass more easily, and the configuration of the rear hatch makes for less drag behind the car.
You need to lighten up a bit. Even though the reply didn't answer your questions it was harmless enough. I think your over-reaction to the reply will probably prevent some others from responding.
All you new drivers that drive a Prius speak right up, or did you want an experienced driver that drives a Prius to speculate on how your new driver son will do in the car?
Thank you for the input. Sorry if I got a bit testy. I can understand your tendency to assume people do not do their homework and make uninformed buying decisions. Many do. I really would like to be able to go with a hybrid from an environmental perspective, but am leaning toward the other options. I hope that as prices for gas go up there will be more pressure from consumers to build more efficient cars and we will have better choices.
Although the advice to have everyone test drive the vehicle is obvious common sense, you would be amazed at how many buyers do not use common sense and do so. I spent fifteen years working for Toyota, and it never failed to amaze me how many people bought a car for someone who never drove it, therefore, I made that suggestion.
I have seen rental agencies that rent Prius, and you may want to go that route for a more extended test drive. Some dealers offer overnight test drives, something you should ask about.
Your point about reduced engine noise making the wiper noise more noticeable brings to mind customer complaints when the Lexus was first introduced. The quiet engine made other noises much more noticeable, particularly tire noise, and an otherwise perfect car became a hated one because of annoying noises or characteristics.
I do not own one, however, I have heard second-hand descriptions from friends who still work for Toyota and from my father, who drives one at his office. I know that second-hand stories is not as good as first-hand experience, but I'll pass it on for whatever it's worth.
According to my friend, the Prius will get its best fuel economy in stop and go driving around town and worst economy on the highway. Since he drove mostly highway to and from his office, he got better fuel economy in his son's Scion xA than he did in the Prius.
My father drives a Lexus LS 430, which is obviously a pretty quiet car. He has commented on how quiet the Prius and pleasant to drive it is but has not mentioned wind noise.
My experience in dealing with customers with noises in cars is that the customers tend to focus on the noise until it becomes annoying rather than becoming less noticeable over time. I know that is the way for me. I was hinting, perhaps too subltely, that a point of annoyance like the wind noise tends to become more rather than less annoying over time.
Like I said above, I had no intent to be patronizing, and I'm sorry you took it that way. I'll give you my opinion based on years of helping people choose vehicles that best suit their needs and tastes, and that is that the noise, uncomfortable seating position for you, and rearward visibility will probably become major points of annoyance and if I were in your shoes, I would look more closely at your other choices because the benefits of hybrid technology won't outweigh the parts of the car that you don't like.
Good luck on your purchase, whatever you end up with.
I too would prefer a more environmentally friendly vehicle and the rapidly rising cost of gas is making the premium one pays for hybrids more and more attractive.
The silver cloud in the high cost of gas is that demand for more efficient transportation will push the manufacturers to redouble their efforts.
We may see more environment friendly cars as a result of the price of gas. A downside of this is, if all goes 'well' gas prices will raise to make up for loss. So it's a win for the environment but don't expect to spend less once it catches on.
As far as the original question goes, personally I have zero experience with the car. Doing a Google search I turned up 2 forums that may be of use for you.
Okay - seems like you need some input from an owner.
My Wife has the car - the Prius 2 version.
She is 5'3" and has no trouble with the seat, steering wheel or pedal positioning.
The rear visibility is not the best she or I have experienced, but the split screen with tinted glass on the lower section does reduce the glare from the lights of vehicles traveling close to the rear bumper (UK).
We have not noticed the wiper / wind noise, mainly I suppose because the quiet engine means that road / tyre noise is so much more noticeable. This is probably due to the appalling state of the roads here in the UK.
Fuel economy is not as advertised - she struggles to achieve 45 mpg (UK gallons), although she doesn't have many long journeys - mainly 5-8 miles twice a day, plus shorter ones in between.
Also, weather has an impact - warm weather improves fuel efficiency a little - probably because the cold zaps the battery quicker.
Interior cabin room is pretty good for a car in this class. The boot space for luggage is not brilliant though - for family breaks we use my car as it has a greater luggage capacity.
Re: the styling. I have to agree that it is not the most aesthetically pleasing design I've seen (looks better than the Corolla Verso though!!)
My wife owned a Corolla before, and was going to trade it in for the new version as she valued the reliability of the marque, but wasn't happy with the new model's design, and thought the interior was a little more cramped than the previous model, so she went for the new Prius instead - motivated by the environmental factors also I must add.
I was wondering about that as well, as when first saw it, but then my friend told me that most cars on the road don't have them as well, which I agreed, and then I thought about most of the times that I would need to see from there that could be a problem. If someone was coming up behind me too fast and about to crash, it wouldn't matter _that_ much. :) But if I was backing up, I'd be turning my head and looking carefully, and ideally, it would be the area below the visual line of sight that I would _really_ need to see, so it doesn't help there. I worry about it in the rain, but then again, folks would have to have their lights on, so that's 'good enough' for me. Again, if not, like they were about to hit me, It won't _that_ much a difference in practice.
Of course though, my old car had rear wipers, so I do miss them, mostly for aesthetics.
I'm 5'6", and it's fine for me. And for long drives, I found I would put the car back a little bit further, and use it to stretch a bit.
Mine still looked like the other cars, so I can't complain, but the newer versions ... it looks 'neato' and stands out, which is good for the environmental awareness, and more streamlined should be more efficient, though I am very pleased with my 45-53mpg
This car is also great at high speeds, as I drove a lot cross country, and could get up to 110mph without a shudder or shake on the plains. Good going up and down the Colorado's and Aiderondacks. Good in rain and snow, roomy for me and my friends for long distance.
Is there an image of this? Everyone here is talking about it, but I can't get a good pic of it online.
- So why was a lightweight, under-trained, and ...slow... officer handling a
220+lb uncuffed violent offender? What sexist, judgmental, criminally ignorant person thought that it was a great idea? --till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x-
I forwarded your post to my father who bought a Prius last year and here is his reply:
I have '04 model purchased May '04. Had to pay $3,000 more than I wished for top end package, including 6-C/D carousel, nav system, and burglar alarm, none of which I really cared about. "neat" though they may be perceived- alternative would have been to wait another 3-4 months beyond initial 3 month wait.
Visibility-correct, there is a problem out of right rear, because of hatchback posts. I found, however, no problem at all with the horizontal split in rear window. You still get full unobstructed view. Regarding rear side view problem, however,oobviously notice it especially when merging from left into traffic, for example going east onto Oakland Bay Bridge, and similar configurations.. Yet, for 38 years I drove a Citroen convertible extensively-it has a smallish plastic back window, and somehow got used to it.
Seat/steering wheel configuration- no problem-I am 5'10". But I do understand the possible problem noted re distance from seat to steering wheel and pedal. Not really an issue with driver seat in foremost position. Very comfortable and natural-also you get great view of dash, particularly the speedometer which is very useful to avoid you know what.
Wind noise-absolutely no problem, particularly in contrast to the noisy convertible!
Mileage/economy-average about 44 plus mpg, lots of hill driving both in city and suburbs. Still way better that gas engine cars giving comparable interior space. It is a disgrace that a new Volvoi sedan, for example, averages maybe somewhat over 20mpg, and otherwise nice wagon types like Odyssey equally dismal on economy Not fair to compare Priuus with little junkers that get in the 30's-Prius is truly a medium size vehicle, couldn't have need for anything larger, considering maneuverability, parking, load capacity, interior cubes,etc. Absolutely no claustrophobia.
Design/ tech look, dash,etc-I love it all, but again, subjective.
Handling-thought I would miss manual shifting on windy mountain road I take regularly. Turns out the one plenary gear setup is fantastic, don't miss downshifting on those curves one bit.
I agree that test ride would make sense-but some dealers will only allow a fairly "tame" nonchallenging route. I would say the rear side (not rear straight back) visibility could be a problem, and takes some getting used to-got to be careful on that one!
Stuart M. Kaplan
Le> I test drove the Prius for the first time yesterday. I was impressed with
Not just aesthetics if you live where the trucks and SUVs throw up mud all over the other vehicles on the road (probably just means the roads are filthy, and I'm probably doing my part for the others on the road, too). That is one feature on the 2005 I like and use more than I thought I would.
Same goes for the GPS gimmick (I really do use it; bought it on a whim, but it really is useful -- I just wish it were more up to date since in several neighborhoods around my house it shows me off-roading all over the place!).
You better be, we get about 45-50 mpg in the 2001, and more like 42-50 mpg in the 2005. More accelleration and tuning the computers to make it drive a bit more agressively, I think, took back most of the potential improvement in gas mileage. At least it is not worse than the 2001.
I've seen several pics, but none from the driver's perspective -- I'll try to take a picture of the view from the driver's seat. The new (2004-5) models do not have the visibility of the old (2001-3) models but I think the other changes make up for it. I have one of each (obviously liked the first one, and I like the second as much or more).
On the original questions:
1) New model has completely adequate accelleration, good handling and good headroom IN THE FRONT SEAT (adequate headroom in the back, but nothing to shout about). Storage in the hatch area is very good (though this is the first hatchback I've ever owned, so maybe I'm just easy to please).
2) I was very concerned about the rear visibility before buying the car (my wife was able to test drive one, but I did not get the chance before we decided to buy another one). I took her word for the fact that it was not poor (Highlander, Astrovan, etc.). It is not that bad. I do wish it were a lot better. I'm more dependent on the side mirrors that I like to be. Your son is more likely to adapt to outside mirrors that you are (if you are anything like me and my son -- age 32, so not really a new driver).
3) I think I agree with whoever mentioned that the noise is unlikely to be coming from the wipers -- I and my wife are both bothered by wind noise coming from one of the rear windows and it seems to be uncorrectable so far. Probably an assembly defect. Beyond that, the only noise I hear on the road is the universal one -- tire noise on Texas roads. Perhaps the engine compartment noise was specific to that car (particularly if the plastic sheathing under the engine compartment were damaged).
4) I'm 5' 10" and my wife is 5" 4", neither of us have any trouble (I do think it would be nice if the Prius had more seat flexibility, but I don't think it would be a real problem until you get to, perhaps, 5' or shorter).
5) I bought the first car mostly for the gee-whiz technology and the low emissions (I did not really feel all that concerned about fuel cost -- after all, I paid 5 or 6 cents per mile for gas out of perhaps 35 cents per mile total costs on the Astrovan, and I now pay about 4 cents a mile for gas out of 40 cents per mile estimated). The 40 cent guess may be overestimated, because I think my projected maintenance costs may be high. We still have not had the brakes done on the 2001 (at almost 70,000 miles) and it looks like the engine will last longer than I will.
My experience matches the results Consumer Reports collected in the new car summary issue a month or so ago. The Prius had the lowest incidence of repair of any of the cars covered. I think that is a reflection of the gee-whiz technology (the drive-by-wire stuff really does cut down on the wear on the engine, brakes and pretty much everything but the part of the powertrain that hits the road and the interior that the dogs and kids stress...).
Overall, I think a fully decked out Corolla would be cheaper to operated, though, and almost as comfortable. An Echo or a Scion-B would be a lot cheaper to operated, but just not nearly as comfortable and not as "much" of a car.
But I bought the cars, really, for the gee-whiz. I cannot deny it (including the GPS package on the 2005!).
6) As far as the design -- I would bet that 70% of the improvement in fuel economy would show up if you took a Camry and shaped it like a Prius. Drag at highway speeds is directly related to the shape. Look at the top (that funny scrolled cross section) -- that is good for 2-3 mpg by itself. Half or more of the difference between the "Classic" Prius and the 2004-5 model. Likewise, the limited head room in the back seat is a concession to better mileage. The shape does grow on you, though. I find I really like it now ("beached whale" or not).
7) The small windows -- the one on the driver's side has saved one cat in my driveway, so I'm not complaining,... They really do improve visibility (don't know why they got rid of them in the '70s or whenever).
8) The other big problem -- I rented a car in California last week, an Aztek was all they had, and it was a nightmare to get used to. I usually took as long getting the car locked as I took driving there (I think Toyotas generally have better ergonomics that Pontiacs -- there is a satisfying thunk when you lock or unlock a Toyota, no such sound on the Aztek). Opening the "way-back", not really a hatchback -- I think it supports a third seat -- was not at all intuitive to a long time Prius driver.
So you may have trouble if you switch back and forth between a Prius and a Pontiac. ;-)
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