Re: MIKE Hunter's smal car v large car thesis is correct

The thing is that there are more fatalities per 100,000 registered trucks and SUVs than there are per 100,000 registered cars.

The rollover rate per 100,000 registered vehicles is more than twice as high for trucks and SUVs than it is for cars, too.

But when a car is hit by a truck or SUV, the car occupants are much more likely to stop breath real soon than the truck occupants.

Jeff

The fact remains if a small car hits another small car, their properly belted passengers are more likely to die as well, compared to the same collision in a larger vehicle. One can not defy the laws of physics. Take a trip through a bone yard and see for yourself. You of course are free to believe whatever you chose, as for me I would never take the chance of being caught dead in a small or midget car just to save a relative few dollar a year on fuel ;)

mike

Didn't you say you had a Pinto?

The fact is that more people die in trucks and SUVs than in cars from crashes per 100,000 vehicles owned.

You can try to edit my posts (which intellectually dishonest, as I see you did), delete the citations from my posts, as you did, etc., but the fact is that one is more likely to die in a truck or SUV than in a car.

Very few bone-yards I have been through list the causes of death on the head stones.

You are free to believe whatever you choose yourself, but the reality is that people in a truck or SUV are more likely to do than people in a car.

So Mike, you can make the same arguments all you want, the reality on this planet is that people are less likely to die in a car than in a truck or SUV. Until you come up with real evidence (and "look it up on the NTHSA site" doesn't count - you tried that sort of thing and made an ass of yourself before too, like with the VINs), I won't waste my time with any comments to you, but you a waste of time and energy.

Jeff

Jeff makes some good points.

Although the following is anecdotal, sometimes it's helpful to read a story about a real-life SUV crash.

From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper today:

A one-car accident on Interstate 55 claimed the lives of a man and woman Saturday, St. Louis police said. Another man was injured.

The accident happened around 12:30 p.m. in the highway's northbound lanes at Utah Street when the /speeding sport utility vehicle/ swerved and overturned, police said.

[Built_Well's note: It appears from this story that all the SUV did was swerve...]]

Killed were the driver, Joseph Frank, 24, of the 7500 block of Michigan Avenue, and a 37-year-old female passenger.

Both were thrown from their 2000 Ford Explorer, police said. Police have not made public the name of the woman.

[[Note: It would be interesting to compare the statistics for Explorer turn-over deaths versus Highlander and 4Runner turn-over deaths.]]

Another passenger, Jason Goins, 29, of the 7100 block of Michigan, who was riding in the rear seat, was taken to St. Louis University Hospital, where he was in stable condition, police said.

The highway was shut down for about two hours. Date: 9/16/2007

She was too old for him anyway.

Did the police charge the SUV with reckless driving? How about involuntary manslaughter? Did the SUV get a ticket for speeding?

Yes you're right. It would also be interesting to see how many Explorer's won't let their passengers use the seatbelts while Highlanders and 4Runners will!

Hummm....I wonder if the Explorer let him wear his seatbelt?

Stories like this are amusing. I've got news for you, the deaths were not the fault of the SUV. The wreak was not the fault of the SUV. The SUV didn't turn over by itself. I have never heard of ANY SUV sitting on a dealer's lot or an owner's driveway that turned over ALL BY ITS SELF.

Picture this: A Toyota Corolla and a Ford Explorer are traveling at

40 mph when they collide head-on. If you had to be in one of those vehicles, which would you choose?

I was rear-ended by guy driving a tractor-trailer rig several years ago. I was sitting still in traffic, he was traveling about 50 mph. My vehicle was about a year old and was totaled. The car I was push into was brand new, it was totaled. Three other vehicles were damaged. I got a scratch on my knee, the woman driving the car in front of me got a bruise on her left leg and "rug burns" on her face and arms from the air bag.

There were two reasons why no one was hurt. All of us had our seat belts on and my truck was the first one hit. I was driving a 4wd SUV. The woman I was pushed into was driving a Ford sub-compact. If she had been hit first and pushed into me, she would be dead now.

In a wreck, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR MASS!

Glad to hear you weren't hurt by that horrifying collision. Things like that should never happen.

How did the tractor-trailer driver explain plowing into you at 50 mph while your auto was sitting still? Any charges filed against him?

Yep, the 3-point seat belt is a life-saver. Did your air bag come out like the lady's in front of you?

I'm not dismissing SUVs. They're nice vehicles. Their advantage, as you said, is their greater mass in a head-on, and their disadvantage is a greater tendency to roll over. Pluses and minuses, I suppose.

Keep clicking those seat belts :-) The ghosts of Henry-Ford-the-Second and New Hampshire Representative Louie Wyman won't help you.

On Sep 16, 2:10 pm, Retired VIP wrote:

Ouch... I drive a corolla.. But I'm under no illusion that it's not a death trap when smacked in the wrong location. I saw a corolla on the news about a month ago that was hit in the side by a larger vehicle on the freeway. Peeled it like an orange.. Needless to say, some inside didn't wake up to talk about it. In the corolla, I know if I get hit hard in the side, I'm probably toast. If I do a head-on with most vehicles, I'm probably toast. Rear ended? A toss... What I fear most in the corolla is a side hit. Needless to say, I'm very careful when I go through intersections. I'm also very careful not to do a head on, but I do that in any vehicle. Head on collisions hurt.. And that freaking airbag will be in my face... I think Tegger had it best in some post I read.. When you drive a car like that, you don't hit stuff, and it would be a good idea not to get hit. I'm a pretty good driver, so the chances of me hitting something are fairly slim.. It's the sorry driving goofballs I'm sharing the road I have to be careful about, and I've already had to do 4-5 collision avoidance moves to avoid idiots that can't drive. Fortunately, the corolla is pretty nimble, and can dart out of the way quick. The corolla can take a pretty hard side hit on the front end, and you'll probably walk away.. But you don't want a SUV coming through your side door area.. You will be toast most times. It's like a steel toed boot stepping on a empty beer can.. :( BTW, with my 89 honda accords lower seating profile, it's probably even more dangerous than the corolla in a side wreck. You sit low in that car, and a truck bumper will be right at about body level. The bottom line. If one can't drive worth a hoot, best avoid a corolla and get a F-350 or something along those lines.. :/ MK

Yes, he got a ticket for failure to maintain control. We were on an Interstate highway in Toledo and some asshole stopped on a bridge to pickup a ladder laying along the side of the highway. Everyone behind him had to stop pretty quick. The driver of the tractor-trailer was lighting a cigarette and didn't see that everyone had stopped until just before he hit me. Talk about a sick feeling, looking in the rearview mirror and watching that big radiator coming at me at highway speed.

Before that happened, I wore my seatbelt about 90% of the time. Now I don't even back the car out of the garage until I've put it on.

That's like saying that airplanes crash into the ground because they fly. The problem with SUVs is that people drive them like they're cars. They're not cars, they're trucks with all the handling and performance problems of a truck. If you treat them like a truck, they won't roll over but if you try to corner like your in a sports car, they'll kill you.

I was in a roll-over in Calif., 1967, we had a lap belt only, we were not tossed out of the car even though both doors were sprung wide open, but we were tossed around in the car. I think those belts saved our life. I never leave the garage either, without my full seat belts on.