Sequoia versus Highlander Hybrid

The revised EPA fuel economy test procedures do not take effect until the

2008 model year. EPA fuel economy is derived using a dynamometer and special test fuel.

I believe that CR arrives at their fuel economy figures by driving around their course with a fairly heavy foot to simulate real-world fuel economy by a driver who is in a "hurry."

Why not?

A minivan offers twice the interior room of any SUV. What is it you're trying to accomplish?

We have a 2003 Sequoia. The third row seats in the Sequoia are very roomy and are comparable to most minivans. We have had tall teens sit in the third row for 12 hour trips with no complaints. Getting into the 3rd row seat is a little more awkward than in a minivan because you have to flip the

2nd row seat forward, but once you get the hang of it, it is no problem.

While I do not own a Highlander or 4Runner, I have sat in the 3rd row seats at the auto show, and there is much less leg room than in the Sequoia. I am

5'-7" and the 3rd row seat was uncomfortable for me, even for a few minutes at the show.

The current Sequoia has a 5 speed automatic transmission; ours has a 4 speed. My wife gets around 12 - 13 MPG around town, I get around 14 - 15 around town and 17 - 18 on the highway. The transmission in the current Sequoia should get around 1 -2 MPG better than ours. The torque and horsepower of the 4.7 liter V8 are enough that you don't notice the engine straining when it is fully loaded like we used to with our minivan.

We have around 48,000 miles on our Sequoia, and have had zero repairs, only routine maintenance items. So far, we have replaced the tires at around

41,000 miles, the front brake pads & caliper pins at 48,000 miles, and oil changes.

Don't forget the "new" 2008 Highlander will be larger. So it might be worth waiting for that. The Sequoia is due for replacementent as well. It is the weakest full size SUV. The 2008 Tundra will move up in size to try and compete with the full size SUVs from Ford and GM (and Nissan). Of course, it is likely this won't help the gas mileage.

Ed

I guess it is because with kids ranging from diapers to college, my wife and I have been buying station wagons and minivans since 1990 and want something snobbier to drive.

Sad but true.

Stan

FWIW, I was talking early one morning with the sales manager about the 08 Highlander. Said he could make a heck of a deal on an 07 Hybrid 'lander. What kind of driving did I do? When I told him he advised against the hybrid as mileage is okay around town but not worth the extra money on mostly higher speeds (was my thought also) - the 08 'lander looks very good and probably worth a look for you.

I've never needed a larger rig than my Highlander but no kids at home and usually no more than 2 or 3 grandkids at a time.

Ron (in Ca)

wow....wow............

So what makes a Sequoia or Highlander "snobbier"? Do members of your social circle truly rank a Toyota SUV, and by extension its driver, higher on their "snob" list than a Toyota minivan that's outfitted like, and drives like, a Lexus?

And....and....these people would be in your social circle....why?

Can you possibly compete with those people? Or will you get the Sequoia, only to be trumped a week later by one of them buying something else?

Let me guess--you have at least one friend who bought a Prius simply because it was a Prius and gave her bragging rights, not because it solved any problem in her life.

You'd struggle with the relative lack of room in an SUV compared to the Sienna, and the difficulty in getting people into that third row, and/or the difficulty in parking the silly thing, AND the fuel bill, for the "pleasure" of....what? Will your current friends dump you if you get yet another station wagon/minivan? (Friends, not acquaintances.)

What sort of message does that deliver to your kids? You know kids are smart; you know they're going to ask you why you bought that big silly SUV that you can't park, that they can't get into the third row without Cirque du Soleil contortions, that they hear you gripe about the fuel costs. And you know they're going to say out loud, "I don't know why Dad bought this thing, I liked the minivan better".

I'm floored.

Well, it's your money. You can get the car you need or the car you want. The one you want will cost more than the one you need.

We're driving a minivan until we're done moving kids into and out of college and then maybe there will be grandkids to deal with and we'll get... another minivan. I don't think you'll find that a Sequoia configured for two plus cargo or three plus cargo (our college dropoff/pickup profiles) will haul more dorm junk than a minivan. I'd bet a quarter that most minivans are quieter, too, which is a huge benefit on those 12 hour trips.

Ray O also mentioned his mileage and brake experience. Our Sienna mileage is 19 or so around town and 24-26 when heavily loaded on the highway. I drive gently in town but noticeably over the limits on the highway. We're also on our first set of brake pads at 65K miles (maybe 50% left? I forget what they said at the 60K service). The 6 will be more economical than the

8 to service, I expect.

A Sienna XLE is more luxuriously equipped than an SR5 Sequoia for probably $3K less. An LE might be a little nicer, too, for even less.

My $.02 - get the minivan. Splurge on some option or option package that you wouldn't ordinarily get and then you'll have a "luxury car." Focus on that, rather than the minivan aspect.

The tragedy of this is that the kids (not just this guy's kids, any kids) are probably ve-ry conscious of who's driving what's hip and who's driving what's not hip.

Things I don't like about mini-vans -

- Weird driving position on top of front wheels

- Styling, I just think they are ugly

- Mediocre performance

- Minimal towing capacity

- I dislike sliding doors

- The ones I have driven handle poorly

- Did I mention they are ugly?

Having said all that, what makes a Highlander less desirable than a Sienna? They are both based on the Camry drive train. It seems to me that the Highlander is little more than a Sienna with conventional doors and a better driver's location.

If you plan to tow anything larger than a small trailer or a small boat, the Sequoia is a better choice - at least in my opinion. If you are plan to drive off road (like the beach) or in a lot of snow, the Sequoia is also a better choice (at least if you are locked in on a Toyota),

If you like a Crossover type vehicle, like the Highlander, there are lots of choices that might be worth looking at - Honda Pilot, Ford Edge, Mazda CX-9, Ford Freestyle, etc. and more are coming all the time. It is a very popular category these days.

I have friends than own both the Pilot and the Highlander. And my Mother has a Freestyle. No complaints from any of them. I've driven the Freestyle extensively and think it is a very good vehicle. Unfortunately I don't much care for the styling. If I was going to pick one of the three, I'd probably go for the Pilot, based on appearance and capabilities.

Ed

For us, the switch from mini van to the Sequoia was more power. Big kids weigh more than infants, and with frequent camping/climbing excursions on rough, unpaved roads that are sometimes unplowed or muddy, towing the troop's trailer, hauling the contents of the kids' dorm rooms to college, the SUV made sense for us. Once the youngest is done with college, we'll probably move to a Highlander or RX size SUV because I still plan on camping and climbing, just with fewer kids.

BTW, unless you are hauling 4x8 sheets of plywood, the Sequoia has more room than our minivan did, with room for 8 passengers in the Sequoia vs. 7 in the minivan.

It's refreshing to see such honesty.

A friend of mine has a Highlander Hybrid, but without as many kids as you. He and his wife like it, although gas mileage on the highway is somewhat disappointing. Fully loaded (with roof rack) they averaged only 24 MPG driving from Texas to California. However in-town, gas mileage is vastly better than a conventional vehicle.

As someone (Ray O?) mentioned, the Highlander is being updated this spring so you might wait a bit. Fuel economy will be improved, Toyota says.

This is exactly what I would expect from a hybrid. The "hybrid" part is little more than extra weight when doing a steady state cruise on an open highway. The big advantage for a hybrid is in town driving where the regenerative braking can recover some energy when braking. Consumer Reports did not achieve especially good mileage with the Hybrid Highlander - 16 city, 28 highway, 27 on 150 mile trip, 22 overall. One telling comment was - " Buyers interested in hybrids only to save money may be disappointed." As a comparison, the conventional V-6 Highlander's mileage was - 13 city, 25 highway, 22 on 150 mile trip, 19 overall. They have not tested a 4 cylinder Highlander recently, but I doubt the mileage would be much better. For the RAV4 and Camry, the 4 cylinder models only got about 1 mpg better than the V-6 models.

Ed

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful replies. We looked at all of the Toyotas (Highlander, 4Runner, Sequoia) and none of them had the space of the 3rd seat in a typical minivan. Same with the Honda Pilot.

We are going to end up with a Mazda CX-9. Nice looking, not as much room overall as a minivan but not too bad, and with a sliding middle row you can balance the space between the second and third row. Supposedly 22 mpg on the highway in the AWD which we like for snow belt in Ohio. Priced similar to the 4Runner and probably less than the Sequoia.

The Ford Freestyle is also a good choice but just not as nice, as one might expect. I couldn't sit comfortably in the third row and my boys are going to be bigger than me in 1-2 years, 1 already has longer legs.

So, still no Toyota. Maybe next time.

Stan

Personally, I think that consumer reports drives around with the parking brake partially on. They get 11-12 mpg on almost every car they drive in the city.

Has any company considered building a "Tri-brid" where they also recharge from solar power? Just curious.

Stan

If you google RAV4 and solar and hunt around, you may run across an article about people that bought a Rav4-EV (purely electric) and also have asmall solar cell farm. Effectively, they are recharging their Rav4 from the sun but they're using the grid as a storage battery, too. I don't seem to have saved the link.

The problem with solar power is that you don't get a lot of watts/(m**2), so to actually get much out of it, you must build a car like those solar race cars or wait a very long time for it to charge. It is probably more effective to put in home solar photovoltaics and use the juice generated for whatever's most convenient. You could simply solar-panel the roof of a car but it would cost extra $$ to get them to conform to the shape of the car or the reduction in aerodymic efficiency would probably offset the power gained.