Sound like a fuel pump?

Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.

This is a good way to spend a lot of money.....guessing.
You need to diagnose the real problem when it exists, and I
full well realize how hard intermittents can be to find.

What I was hoping for are alternate suggestions of places to look if
not the fuel pump. If I felt I had all the answers I wouldn't be on
here asking. "Ask around for suggestions" has worked out pretty well
over the years.

It's an all or nothing scenario that started occurring suddenly. Car
either runs great or doesn't run at all. 22 year old factory pump with
over 170k miles on it. Does this sound like behavior an aging pump can
exhibit, suddenly gets stubborn about spinning up? What else could
cause this?

Folks have suggested that you measure the fuel pressure at the rail.  This
will tell you most of what you want to know.


Lots of things, including some ignition failures.  
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

What I was hoping for are alternate suggestions of places to look if
not the fuel pump. If I felt I had all the answers I wouldn't be on
here asking. "Ask around for suggestions" has worked out pretty well
over the years.

It's an all or nothing scenario that started occurring suddenly. Car
either runs great or doesn't run at all. 22 year old factory pump with
over 170k miles on it. Does this sound like behavior an aging pump can
exhibit, suddenly gets stubborn about spinning up? What else could
cause this?
*******
I have seen a lot of other things cause this.  The few problems
I have had with a defective fuel pump include sometimes failure to start, up
to never starts.

I have had intermittent ignition switches do something similar.
Also, I found an intermittent CPS (crankshaft position sensor)
that caused this.

Sometimes other problems in the electrics will cause intermittent
start/run situations.

It would be really good to know, when this rascal fails to run,
what the actual fuel pressure is.

In addition, it would be helpful to know if you are getting good
hot consistent spark.

I had one problem with a powertrain control system (just call
it a computer)  that was intermittent.   But it did not act exactly
like the one you are describing.

My comment was not intended to make fun of you..
Intermittents are often very hard to find. And you can spend
a ton of money guessing.

Almost sounds like a loose connection to the fuel pump.. If you bang
on the tank and it now starts the pump could be intermittantly
working.  also swap your f/p relay with another one to see if that
helps.

chas

Banging on a fuel tank will not move wires/change a connection.

FWIW, I went thru a problem with an old 1989 Chevy Corsica that was fuel
related. First thing I did was to test the ignition system for spark - spark
was good so I knew computer was powered and crank sensor was OK. Next I
tested the fuel pressure because I suspected the original fuel pump was
finally bad. To my surprise, I had good pressure. I then went to Autozone
and rented/bought/whatever a fuel injector noid light set, disconnected an
injector, plugged the light in, cranked the engine and found I wasn't
getting any pulse signal to the injectors to fire them. I then learned that
on some fuel injection systems (especially the older batch-fired versus
sequential injection) that the injectors can be wired in parallel 3 on each
circuit for a V-6. Over the years the injector coils short circuit and have
much less than their original 12 ohms of impedance. Since 3 injectors are in
parallel this results in a big increase in current flow thru the transistors
in the computer and it can't always handle it. So sometimes it fires the
injectors and sometimes it doesn't. I have no idea if this is your problem
(on a Toyota?), but it's very easy to rent the noid light set and rule out
the injectors not firing.

Put a fuel pump in it and quit wasting or time.

Put a fuel pump in it and quit wasting or time.

***
You are guaranteeing that diagnosis  ?

.

YES!!! That is one of the simplest diagnosis you can do, when you
don't hear a fuel pump running!

You have a bad fuel pump.
It is worn out,
The peace of mind you will get is worth the $300 a shop will charge
you.
Is this the same Cressida fuel pump that has been mentioned sseveral
times before?
HTH
Ben

Worn brushes will do that. Maybe put a mallet with remote cord?.

Greg

On 7/27/2011 09:43, muzician21 wrote:

Geez. Whack the tank, it works. Check the electrical connections at the
pump.No cost, just elbow grease.

--
Steve Walker
Fusion640@frontierbrain.com (remove brain when replying)

As a follow up, I replaced the pump with a unit from Autozone - yeah
yeah, I know "why are you using that Autozone Airtex junk??" etc. etc.
Had to have the car running, couldn't wait for NAPA or the dealer to
get one delivered. Will look for a deal on a better one online.

Going on a week, running good so far. One thing I noticed is the
pickup strainer on the original was this oval plastic cage with mesh,
the one with the Airtex is basically a flat bag, looks like a bulky
tea bag. Struck me that the design on the factory pump would seem to
allow for better flow but that could be wrong.

Of note, I asked a buddy who runs a well-regarded auto shop if he had
a brand he recommended, he says he uses Airtex right off the shelf
from Advance Auto Parts all the time, that they don't have problems
with them coming back. .shrug

On 7/26/2011 4:44 PM, muzician21 wrote:

I had a Ford Taurus that had an intermittent fuel pump that would
randomly not turn on. This was easy to diagnose because when the key was
set to run, I could not hear the pump cycle on. I isolated the problem
to the relay and my short term solution was hit the relay box with a
rubber mallet. This worked fine, except that I had to open the hood to
hit the relay which was in a sealed unit that had most of the other high
amp relays. The long term solution was to get a used replacement from
eBay for under $20.