What does that prove? You can mostly likely find a lot of people in your area, or Washington State or any other state, that have never seen Paris. I've seen Paris as well as a half dozen sludged up engines, in just one fleet, that had the problem, one even required and engine change.
Use you head no manufacture will ever warrant for neglect. The original Toyota warranty, like every other warranty, even states that fact. It is not usual for problems to first show up in fleet cars, because fleets and fleet service center like ours, service large numbers of the same kinds of vehicles, that can quickly accumulate mileage. Fleets were the first to see gasket problem occurring in GM, Chrysler, Honda Toyota and Ford vehicles when asbestos was taken off the market, as well.
The proof is self evident. Toyota issued numerous TSBs, change the head on all effected engines, built as of August of 2003. Switched to a synthetic oil recommendation. Extended the warranty to eight years unlimited mileage, on engines with the problematic head What more proof does anyone, but a true diehard apologist, need? Toyota is no better than any other manufacture, they too make some that are not up to snuff on occasion. Even sometimes a lot of them, that are not up to snuff. The most recent large recall proves it. ;)
Anybody who thinks their preferred brand is better on average than another, lives in a dream world. They all make some that are not up to snuff but from what we saw in our business the domestic were far better at taking care of us when vehicles were out of warranty, than any of the import brands, except RR. ;)
On a person note, I had to threaten to sue Honda to get them to replace the engine in my daughters vehicle when an oil seal let go. First they argued, owner neglect, that she should have turned off the engine and drifted off
1-95 to the side of the road. Then they wanted her to prove the oil was changed with the proper grade and type of oil.. There was less than 6,000 miles on her car and the oil was changed, as described in the warranty manual, but not at a Honda dealership. When I pointed our that our shops are authorized to perform warranty work for Honda, and that they would hear for my attorney, they relented and gave us a new engine for our shop to install. She then traded it on a domestic brand. She drove that brand to
65K in three years, trouble free, and bought another from the same dealer.
Mike H...where can I get a copy of those TSB's, how do I know which head was changed out. I have a 3.0 in a highlander have been changing oil @ 3000 miles +/- which was bought August 03
The only real problem I had was the Transmission, and to Toyota's credit they did recognize it early and extend the warranty. It did have more rattles than I liked, most of which the dealer or myself was able to correct. My wife drives this and she is pretty easy on vehicles so the brakes lasted to 60K, no warped rotors and only needed a basic front brake job. Tire wear seemed normal. I'm not saying you're at fault, but the brake problem could be do to driving habits and the fact that the Sienna is a larger vehicle. Hard breaking, riding the brakes etc can significantly shorten the life, where with a lighter vehicle, you can get away with this much easier. This is a common complaint with all the minivans that I noticed when doing by research. No matter which van I was researching, there was always someone with a horror story of ripping through brakes.
Another thing is that I like the service at the dealership I go to. My experience is that you get much better service a dealer than an independent. Independents aren't experts on your vehicle and don't have the inside information or the relationship with the manufacturer. When my heater fan motor died in my Echo, out of warranty, the dealer was able to get Toyota to get a new motor for free and I only had to pay 1 hour of service, something that never would happen at an independent, plus I had bad experience in my previous Mazda, where the independents kept diagnosing a problem wrong and would had me do about
2 grand in repairs, where the dealer was familiar with the problem and was able to fix it for $160 cause they knew exactly what was wrong and weren't guessing. If possible, try another dealer.
After 90K the car has been painless to own and drives as solid and smooth today as the day I bought it. Now my sisters Chrysler van also has about 90K and while she has not had any major problems, it has been into the shop several times for repairs and is starting to look and drive like a tired automobile.
Honestly, if I were in the market for a large vehicle, I'd go domestic - nobody knows big and wasteful better than the US.
I do all my routine work with the dealer, and I'm really wary of independents. Even when the dealer 'diagnoses' the problem, I'm still hesitant to take the car elsewhere.
My 6-year-old Echo is a joy to drive and maintain, as were our old Celica and FX 16. I don't know of any Big 3 *small* vehicle owners who can say the same.
Call you dealer and give them the VIN#, WBMA. They can advise you if your vehicle is eligible for the extended warranty related to what Toyotas refer to as gelling
That is because you don't know me Natty, you wicked little chocolate doll . I have a 1971 domestic small car that currently has just short of 300K on the clock, that still looks and runs just fine. ;)
Everybody needs to understand that Mike is lying. Unless he can actually back up these claims (he can't 'cause they are not true), pay no attention to him. He is only here for one reason, and this is to discredit Toyota 'cause Ford can't compete with them. Everytime this subject comes upo, he all of a sudden has even more first hand knowledge and now claims to have seen a half dozen sludged up engines in his fleet. How many years ago was this? Funny how he is just now mentioning this.
There are no TSBs for sludge. There are no sludged up engines were the owner can prove oil changes, some claim but no proof, and certainly no sludged up engines when serviced at a dealer. Hunt claimed once to have seen the official letter, but evidently he was the only one they showed it to and they destroyed the only copy after showing it to him.
I avoid all the sludge threads now, its been said a million times. The fact remains that I have been at a dealership for about 8 years, and have 'desludged' hundreds of these things personally. Not one of these customers had proof of a service history consistent with Toyotas recommendations. Not one. But who cares? Jesus Christ, find a hobby. Play with your kid. Let Toyota make cars, and if you think they stink, buy something else and get a life. People like MikeHunt and (to a more extreme level) that nutty Charlene broad that used to pepper all of us with that garbage should focus their unfounded conspriacist energy elsewhere.
My 02 Highlander was recalled. It took less than 5 minutes. Apparently a clamp on some gas tank to fuel line "might" be turned slightly. Thus the recall/inspection. Apparently there was the possibility of this clamp if in the wrong position maybe hitting the vehicle floor pan in an accident.
The problem is.....I want independent sources for this. Not that my dealer would lie, but I have questioned them at length about a possible sludge problem. They have told me all the TSB & recalls that applied to my vehicle so far. They have had sludge cars in their facility, that according to them, one owner never changed their oil at 67000 miles. I just wonder for my own satisfaction if I should pull the valve cover off some weekend and have a look.?? or do synthetic.
and click on the "Technical Service Bulletins" link and search TSB's yourself or click on the "Recalls" link and search recalls. You can read for yourself how to determine whether a vehicle has engine oil gelling or not.
I am not aware of any cases of oil gelling in an engine that has had its oil changed every 3,000 miles. The cases I am aware of had all had extended oil change intervals.
Same old same old. Get real the widely published fact that Toyota extend the warranty on the effected engine to eight years, unlimited mileage, authorized dealers to 'clean repair or replace any engine exhibiting 'gelling,' as Toyota refers to the sludge problem, and changing the head on all of the effected engines built after August of 2003, as published in Automotive News and other trade magazines at the time, proves it was not owner neglect. No matter how many times you chose to believe of say otherwise teh fact will not change.
That is true of most recalls, they are minor and generally do not effect all of the vehicles recalled. The current Toyota recall of loss of steering control is a different story. According to published reports, Toyota executives were trying to hide the fact for many years by repairing cars when they came in for service.. Several apparently have been charged criminally in Japan, after two cars collided and several people died.
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