Thinking of getting a Camry

Depending on who/what you believe, I think this is one of the years that some people claim is part of the mysterious "sludge problem" reported by some toy owners.

Do the research, see if it worries you.

Front end rattle from the strut mount bushings

I thought that the oil sludging was known only for the 6-cylinder engines. (Or at least it was more frequent.) Maybe I'm wrong... Just so you can laugh at GM, here are the problems that I've got with my Pontiac 6000 - the 2.5L 4-cyl, well known for issues:

1. Will not start at temperatures below 0 F - it's always done this even with a new expensive battery. Perhaps the oil thickness is the problem
2. Seat belts wore out
3. Needs struts
4. Oxygen sensor problems (replaced once already)
5. Oil leak
6. Power steering fluid leak
7. Small transmission fluid leak
8. Antifreeze leak when it gets very cold outside
9. Needs new tires
10. Cruise does not work
11. A/C does not work
12. Stalls sometimes when you go to press on the gas - *normally* restarts - it's always done this since day 1 and we haven't been able to figure it out yet - it does it more as the temperature goes down but will still do it in the 90's F
13. Has problems starting when the gas tank gets around 3/4 or lower - my guess is the fuel pump
14. Catalytic converter sometimes stinks
15. Muffler seems loose as it makes a rattling noise at certain RPMs
16. Water leaks when it rains
17. Passenger side speaker cuts out for no reason - even at low volumes
18. Idles poorly - engine sputters and shakes the whole car (almost like a timing problem)

About the only thing still good on the car is the body - and most of them you see have horrible bodies. (covered in rust)

I wanted a Camry because they're known to be reliable (like most Toyotas) and my grandmother has a 2004 Avalon XLS. They like it a lot, but they sometimes wished they still had their '99 Lexus ES300. (Mainly because of its looks.) Both cars rode much nicer than a GM. My grandfather (married to the grandmother) bought a brand new Malibu and they said it doesn't ride as nice as the Avalon (or the Lexus). When they do their hour-drive into the city, they always take the Malibu because they don't want to get the Avalon dirty and they don't want the doors to get dinged up when they're at a parking lot.

I actually have my doubts about the "reality" of the whole sludge issue, but it pays to be informed. At any rate, it apparently "affects" some 4's (or not):

My father had an '87 Chevy Celebrity (same car) with many of the same problems. And his had the 2.8L V6 with a problematic 4-speed auto tranny.

And my father's Celebrity had significant rust on it, especially around the trunk lid and wheel wells.

GM "A-body" cars of that era are quickly dropping like flies in my area. Most of what I see now are later year Cutlass Ciera's and Century's.

"High Tech Misfit" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@hightech.misfit...

My mother used to have a Celebrity with the 2.5 and it also had lots of problems. It needed a head job twice and the clear coat went bad on it within just a few years when it was new. The only reason why we have the same car (the Pontiac) is my brother bought it almost nine years ago. It only had 60,000 miles then and it already had a starting problem back then. It took three things to fix it (all of which were expensive) and I know one of them was the fuel pump. He only bought it for $1800. It then became my mom's when her Celebrity needed its second head job. She later bought a '94 S-10 Blazer and I got the Pontiac for my first car and it's purpose was just to get me by. Well, after only two years, I'm sick of it. It was funny, however, that the Celebrity started in the sub-0's and the 6000 doesn't when they're the same engines. (I believe the Celeb was a carb instead of a TBI.) My Pontiac has eaten many mufflers (like 4 since it's been in the family), but at least they have a life time warranty so it doesn't cost me anything. There are four other similar cars at our school. A rust-covered Buick Century, a newer (probably '91) Cutlass Ciera, an older and rusty Cutlass Ciera (carb), and another Pontiac 6000 like mine only grey and rust covered. That 6000's gas lid is completely missing and it also has muffler problems. I think that 6000 has the 2.8 because it doesn't sound like a lawn mower like the 2.5 does. All the other cars, however have the 2.5, and they all have the same lawn mower sound. I see the Buick Century's and the Cutlass Ciera's the most here in the city. On occasion, I'll see a Celebrity. The

6000 is what I see the least.

My 6000 is burgandy.

It's also funny how when the temp's are in the sub-zeros my 6000 is the only car that doesn't make it to school. The rest of them make it.

My 6000 has only 124,333 miles on it right now.

I'm skeptical to by a GM again after my 6000, mother's Celebrity she used to have, and my dad's '96 Blazer (which has had $6000 put into it in repairs in the only a year and a half that he's owned it - the engine's spun a bearing at only 116k miles, and a wide assortment of other problems). My mother's S-10 Blazer has had it's fair share of problems, but it's fairly reliable. Dad used to have an '88 Caravan that he got over 225,000 miles with before it died.

Any engine will sludge up if you never change the oil - it's just that a few models tend do it faster than normal. Beware any car that was leased and they can't produce any maintenance records for long stretches of time.

Often a leased car is treated like a long term rental - there's no incentive for the lessee to take care of it at all. The car only goes in for maintenance work when it quits running, or they run out of tires or brake pads, and that's not nearly often enough to prevent formation of sludge in the engine.

To tell for sure you pop off a valve cover and look - if you see evidence of a substance related to chocolate pudding, you don't want to buy the car. Costs you a valve cover gasket and a bit of time.

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My Pontiac 6000 blew a valve cover gasket twice, (almost in a row) so we just finally siliconed the thing.

My '85 Camry had that. You'd think they would've found a way to cure the problem by '97....or '99....or '01, as my '99 RAV4 had it...AND my '01 Lexus RX300 also was a strut mount noisemaker in parking lots as well. I'm 3 for 3 for strut mount bushing noise. (Actually, 4 for 4 as my Infiniti QX4 does it too!)

My '85 Camry had that. You'd think they would've found a way to cure the problem by '97....or '99....or '01, as my '99 RAV4 had it...AND my '01 Lexus RX300 also was a strut mount noisemaker in parking lots as well. I'm 3 for 3 for strut mount bushing noise. (Actually, 4 for 4 as my Infiniti QX4 does it too!)

Toyota makes very good cars but suspension noises seem to keep coming back to haunt them.

I would recommend a Corolla for a teenager (I got that from your other posts) for:

1. Better gas mileage
2. Lower maintenance cost
3. Camry makes the driver look older :) -- even though I have one myself

Hondas tend to be like that too.

Yes, '97 has 100HP, and '98 has 120HP. See

Have you driven the corolla? I used to have a lunch-buddy with a '96 corolla 5-speed. I have to admit that it's not a hot-rod, but he never seem to have trouble as far as normal travelling is concerned (with 5 passengers). He sold it under value for $3000 just last autumn.

Another friend of mine has a '95 corolla dx automatic, and he would pass a lot of cars in NYC. Well, his driving skills are pretty darn good. BTW, the automatic has an OD switch, which you can press it to down shift when needed. I use the OD switch on my camry quite often too.

Anyway, you sound like a pretty responsible person and I am sure you will make the best decision based your research.

Which state is this, If you don't mind?

"Podi" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

I don't mind - Iowa. 9 years or older have the cheapest license plates. I'm doing lots of research.My grandparents had a '99 Lexus ES300 that they bought in February of 2003. (It had 40,000 miles on it.) They got rid of it in March of 2004 not because it had problems but because they wanted to get rid of it before it lost value - a pathetic excuse as far as I'm concerned. They change vehicles as much as they change underwear! (Just kidding.) They replaced the Lexus with a brand new 2004 Avalon XLS. It had

20 miles on it. They still happen to have that car. They took it on a 3100-mile trip last year and had no problems at all with it. It's got close to 20,000 miles now. A person my grandma knows has a Camry and they've had it for 6 or 7 years and they still drive it all the time. It's the same style as the '97. I don't know if it's the V6 or the 2.2. There are quite a few other people in that small town that have had at least a few Camry's (one of which have had each style of the Camry since they made their debut and have always had the 4-cylinder engine in all of them.) and they've been happy with them. I don't know how to drive a manual, and I'd rather focus on driving rather than shifting from 1st to 2nd to 3rd, etc. I'm making sure I don't make a dumb mistake like my dad did - he wanted an SUV and bought a '96 Blazer. He did look at one Toyota, but it was way out of his price range. He always had a craving for a Blazer right from the beginning. I knew right then and there before he bought it that he'd be making a mistake, but there was no point in telling him because he wouldn't have listened anyway or believed the reasearch I found. Long story short, he's only had it a year and a half and has put $6000 into it in repairs. (On top of the $5000 he spent to buy it.) Only after owning it three months, the engine spun a bearing at only 117,000 miles. (He had already spent over $1500 on it before that point.) The engine job was $2500 - for just a junk yard engine with 68,000 miles. If that's not bad enough, it took them three engines to find one that would start right up and run well. You pretty much have to tear apart the entire vehicle to get the engine out/in. He had it back in a week. The guy even opened up his business on Saturday in the morning to finish it. Then, two months later when the temperatures got hot, he discovered that the A/C didn't work - sure enough, it was the compressor. He also had the typical Blazer cooling system problems like the radiator. His ABS light comes on sometimes. The person who has worked on his Blazer in the past said that it isn't worth fixing that problem and that he'll still have regular brakes, just not ABS. He's been going several months without problems now. (Knock on wood.)

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And by the way, my Pontiac 6000 is only a 3-speed automatic. It still gets

30-31mpg the last time I took it out on the highway but it's lucky to get 15 in the city. (It's rated at 24 in the city.) I haven't taken it out on the highway for several months due to the problems it's got. The fastest speed it's seen since then is probably between 45 and 47. When my mom had it, she drove it 85 once to see how fast someone was going who flew by us. (85 is the highest the speedometer goes on that car.) I'm willing to sacrifice an mpg or two to get more power where the engine doesn't struggle. The last time I took it out on the highway was an hour and 15 minute drive to my grandmother's house. I passed one person on the way up, and the only way to have enough power to pass in a decent time was to floor it. (The people were driving a Buick Century only going about 40-45 in a 55 zone.) If they were going 55, just think how difficult it would have been to pass them with that car. (Most people in Iowa drive 10 over the speed limit. I normally do 5 over, which I think is more than fast enough. I normally will drive the speed limit when nobody else is around because then I don't feel pressured to go faster because nobody's about to go up my rear-end.)

rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcomn (Ray=A0O) wrote;

=A0=A0>Toyota makes very good cars but >suspension noises seem to keep coming >back to haunt them.

I've always referred to it as the Achilles Heal of the Toyota brand. Truly, it was the only thing wrong with all of the vehicles.

But, now that my Infiniti does the same thing, perhaps it's a Japanese brand thing?

The Corolla probably weighs a lot less than the Pontiac 6000 so if the Corolla has more HP and less weight, its performance should be better.