Timing Belt Replacement

Seals used onthe crankshaftt, valve stems, etc. are lubricated with oil, while water pump bearings are sealed without an external source of lubrication. Water is also erosive, which makes sealing and lubricating that much harder. If the coolant starts to pick up corrosion, the metal particles add to the erosion.

I like your definition, and come to think of it, automakers (at least Toyota, I assume all) have a definition of "lifetime" along those lines.

If those pumps were moving a lubricant instead of something erosive, then making water pumps more dependable would be much easier.

Besides posts remaining on the internet essentially forever, most of the people posting do not know as much about the subject they are posting about or they leave out some pertinent facts, like complaining about a water pump failure at only 90,000 miles on a 9 year old car when the coolant has never been changed.

It is possible to fix problems and handle PR in a way that actually enhances the public's perception. A classic case is Tylenol, where they restored public confidence in their product after the contamination scare.

If we're thinking about the same one, he disappeared a few months after I started calling on him. Perhaps having most of his franchisors start charging him back for warranty claim irregularities; receiving weekly calls from the AG; and having his store featured on the nightly news consumer protection segment, and having his most profitable line threaten to not renew his franchise convinced him to find another line of work.

I didn't say I condone or that I like their policy. But it is only dishonest if they lie to you (quote you one price and charge you a different price). If you don't like their prices, then go somewhere else.

Why don't you call the Toyota dealers in your area and ask them for a price quote of the following for a 2000 Camry V6 (to be consistent):

1. Water pump change only
2. Timing belt change only
3. Timing belt change and water pump change done at the same time.

You might be able to talk them into a discount (especially if you are Ray O and know the dealer), but from what most people have posted in this forum, an anonymous phone call requesting a quote will show that the initially quoted price of item 3 is the same as items 1 + 2 above.

You don't need a sample size of thousands. Just call all the dealers in your area.

Of course maintenance could affect that. If a manufacturer is diligent in designing a pump that will last the life of the vehicle, it may be with the assumption that the coolant is changed at the necessary intervals (and of course that the proper coolant is used). I have seen articles about coolant (at least certain types) and how its chemistry changes pretty drastically over time - causing high acidity, clumping, etc. If the majority of consumers ignore the maintenance as far as coolant change intervals, then that could be a problem for the hope of a lifetime pump. Obviously if that is the case, the longer the life of the coolants that are usable, the less of a negative effect the consumer's neglect will have. Some coolants are worse in their degraded chemistry over time than others - DexCool? I believe is one of those.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

I would do that in 3 separate phone calls to each dealer. The fact that you have enough brains to even delineate the options could drastically affect their answer (i.e., they will give different answers depending on if they think you have any savvy about car repairs or not - for example, you might get a different answer on option 3. if you are a woman who - quote - ...was told by someone that she needs something like a timing belt and a water pump changed... - unquote - asking vs. a man that sounds like he knows what he's talking about).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Good point. But if you asked the price of number 3 first (price of changing timing belt and water pump at the same time), and then asked the price of them individually after that, it might suffice.

Hmmm...which one was *THAT*?

I'm thinking at the western end of the state, AFAIK they're still rap-- er, servicing their customers...

LOL!! it was meant to be a bit risque. I knew Sharx35 would catch it, but I doubted jsb would... Five gold stars for Sharx35 and gold mettle for ya tooo.

The one I was thinking of was near the north end of 495. They were a multi-line dealer, and my wife's aunt and uncle went there to get a Detroit

3 vehicle, unaware of the dealer's reputation. My wife's aunt wanted the car in light blue, with a vinyl top in the same color, but the only one they had on the lot had a white vinyl top. The salesperson said that they would get them the car they wanted in a couple of days, and sure enough, when they stopped by the dealership, they had one with the right color combination and they bought the car. A week later, when the uncle sprayed the garden hose to wash the car, blue paint started peeling off of the vinyl top, revealing the original white top underneath. By the time they went back to the dealership to complain, it was out of business, and since the problem wasn't a factory defect, no other dealership would provide warranty coverage on the flaking problem.

I think that water pumps are already designed to last 150K miles as long as coolant replacement intervals are followed.

Toyota's Red Long Life Coolant and pink Super Long Life Coolant is pretty good stuff. I have no experience with Dex-Cool but have heard a lot of horror stories.

Heh, heh. Now that all you'alls primaries are over, I have time, again, for this newsgroup.

Probably true.

Me too. I think G-05 is the right answer (and possibly Prestone's All Makes All Models - juries still out on that, but I can't see Prestone being stupid enough to repeat their DexCool? mistake - the All Makes All Models will allow them to sneak away from DexCool? and save face).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

NICE!!!

No the dealer I'm referring to is at the other end of the state. Sorta rhymes with Baghdad...

In the case of DexCool and other low silicate coolants, that's because the silicates don't abrade the water pump seals.

And that's exactly what they are, stories. If it's changed when it should be, there is little [no] problem. DexCools weak spot is when air is allowed to be ingested into the cooling system (gasket and radiator cap leaks) the air causes the DexCool to jell and clog the radiator and heater core. But the blame belongs to the component failure, not the coolant. Same thing happens to green coolant, just to a lesser extent.

Are there better coolants then DexCool? Certainly. As Bill said, G-05 is pretty good stuff. As a mechanic and a shop owner will I set myself up for the fall by using a non approved coolant? No way.

No vehicle should have any "All makes All Models" coolant used in it. That is the equivalent of using an additive in generic Dexron transmission fluid to make it into ATF+4 (which I'm sure you can identify with Bill) That stuff (coolant) isn't approved by any manufacturer.

"What do you use to flush and fill the tranny?" "We used Dexron with the proper friction modifiers added to meet Chrysler requirements."

hmmm...Chrysler specifies ATF+4, and failing to use it craps out the tranny...

"Um, no thanks..."

The real fun is just beginning. The superduper real fun will begin right after the Nov election when there will be mass hangings or dimmie politicans jumping out of buildings and dimmie advisors falling on their swords, or disemboweling themselves. It will be a bloody mess to clean up.