People listen to Ray because he has proven his competence over a long period of time.
People don't listen to you (which seems to bug you) because you make false statements.
Some of us like to learn and Ray provides knowledge we would never be exposed to.
You, on the other hand, come in here throwing stones at a proven producer (who admits when he is wrong).
Surly you don't expect anyone to take you seriously.....
LOL....
You don't HAVE to eat the pancakes....they have other delicious meals.
The restaurant used to belong to a Greek with a great sense of humor.
He sold it to a couple of women.
They carry on the tradition.
You KNOW you have been to a place too many times when they bring you a carafe of de cafe coffee and a pitcher of water before you sit down...LOL
sorta like cheers without alcohol....
I didn't say that all dealers always use the wrong viscosity of oil, but over the last 10 years, most did most of the time. That is absolute fact Jack.
I don't object to Ray giving his opinion, but I would take it as coming from a Service Advisor--not always 100% accurate.
I am not complain that people don't listen to me. They don't listen to other qualified experts on this forum either until they hear it from a Toyota management person, which is real shame.
But anyway, we are talking about tires, which Toyota does not make and does not even provide a warranty on, so there are lots of tire experts (other tan me) on this forum who know more about than Ray.
Well, I am still waiting for Ray to admit that Toyota often use the wrong viscosity of oil and that there oil change kids are typically no better than Jiffy Lube (not certified Toyota techs).
When did he say that? I don't recall him saying that.
Wanna bet? I used to work at a dealer, and I can guarantee the people doing oil changes and rotation service know what they are doing. I was one of them, and I took precautions with your car I don't even take with my own.
Ray stated the Toyota recommendation: Use the tire pressures on the door jamb or the Glove Box. As a Toyota rep, that is what he would do. And there's a reason for it! Toyota selects the tires and sizes based on how they want the car to feel and perform. So, for the correct size tire, the smart advice is to follow the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation! That's the smart advice!
In terms of knowledge, can you EVER go too far?
I appreciate a lot that Ray has imparted here. Stuff I didn't know. Doesn't bother me in the least, and I like to know how Toyota does things. I've been driving their cars for over 30 years and I like to know about the companies I am doing business with. If I were driving Fords, I'd want to know aas much about them as I could.
You came in firing with both guns.....now you are wimping out a bit.
Stand up for what you believe.....even if you are wrong....
I bet fifty percent of the time you used the wrong oil.....Mark A said so......................
Why should he?
I've seen the 'kids' that change the oil at a few dealers and they sure as hell know what they are doing.
They are a HELL of a lot better than Jiffy Lube techs....
You can never have too much information and a lot of Rays stuff is very interesting even if unrelated - you can guarantee that he will have answered the question you asked before telling you more. If you dont want to read the rest - stop reading!
Seriously matey, you need to get out of bed on the right side before posting :-)
I've never seen him tout that around? If he disagrees with something or there is a bad comment he often ignores it or discusses ways of sorting it out. Of course he wont go against something that he was part of, but its nota big conspiracy on a personal level! :-)
I for one have had both good and bad service at all sorts of dealers. This is why i dont use them any more unless Im buying parts, where even Toyota charge a fortune and make life difficult. But then if you go to a BMW dealer near mine you'll find a "Service Manager" who takes the rad cap off a car thats just done a 20 minute drive despite warning, scalds himself, tries to top up the 2 litres it lost with cold normal tap water. You'll find a subaru garage not far from my brothers who forgets to tighten wheel nuts. You'll find a renault dealer that wants $1400 for a cam-belt change then gets it wrong and bends the valves. IT happens everywhere, but you cant expect the workers there to go around complaining to the general public about their own employer can you?
What I really believe? My main objection is to people who take what Ray says as gospel and fawn at his every statement. If Ray were a certified Toyota technician, that would be another story, but he is not.
I much prefer the days when Rick ruled this forum. That guy new what he is talking about. There are a few other Toyota techs on this forum who have good stuff.
Like I said, Ray is like your "service advisor". Sometime it is just corporate BS.
Perhaps "wrong" is a matter of interpretation. In the past most dealers (not all dealers) have frequently put in 10W-30 when 5W-30 is recommended. There has probably been some movement to 5W-30 in the last few years, but Toyota has recommended 5W-30 for the last 10 years.
If your dealer has always followed the Toyota recommendation for oil viscosity, then good for you. Not all dealers are the same, and they are not owned by Toyota.
Anyone is better than Jiffy Lube. But at least at Jiffy Lube, the customer decides what oil goes in the crankcase.
Actually, even then, it wouldn't be. Ray could misunderstand something, the OP could say something incorrectly or Ray could just plain be wrong. No one is perfect. Not even Toyota techs.
While I respect Ray's opinion, he, like the rest of us, make mistakes.
Jeff
OK, that's fine. I think that whether or not it is important is not important. I enjoyed finding it out. That works for me, and validates it presence in this NG to me at least. Tomes
I said paid **extra** for dealer prep... I, and I would imagine most people, are aware that dealer prep is factored into the cost of the car.
I have spent time with hundreds of sales people and service people. I find it very easy to believe that a sales person would not notice the very harsh ride right away. Most of the sales people had very little automotive technical knowledge, and their knowledge of the various features in the cars was not much more complete.
"Mark A" ...
You still haven't cited where Ray goes too far, or was incorrect.
You want Rick? He has his own group on Yahoo:
Natalie
Yes, because you are not the only one who thinks the mirrors are removed before shipping, and so others besides you may benefit from that trivia. I've run across people who have a problem with the mirrors that have attribute the problem to the removal process, which never took place. If you look at pictures of cars coming off of an assembly line in ads or a press release, they are always shiny and complete, with mirrors and hub caps installed, so IMO, it is prefectly natural to assume that all cars have that stuff removed before shipping to a dealer.
You are assuming that most Toyota dealers use the wrong viscosity oil based on limited experience with Toyota dealers, and based on that anecdotal experience, came up with that assumption. Now that I have thought about it, I have no idea of knowing whether most Toyota dealers currently use the correct or incorrect viscosity oil when doing oil changes, so I am not in any better position than you to make or refute that question.
Matters that may seem irrelevant and trivial to you are not irrelevant and trivial to someone whose job it was to monitor those matters, and old habits die hard.
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