Toyota nears decision on 2nd Mexico plant

I thought this was an interesting tidbit from the article:

I wonder what percentage are made in the US?

Ed

I would bet near 50%. Some of the electronics and other parts probably come from Japan. I wonder if the 40% figure applies to the trucks built in Indiana, too. They way they make it sound, cold steel goes in one end of the plant, and a truck comes out the other.

Unfortunately, I don't know of a web site that reports US content for a variety of vehicle. And the VINs don't reflect content, either (if they do, please show us the web site that backs this claim).

Different models probably have different origins for different engines, transmissions and other components. It also probably depends on where the truck is built (Pres. Bush's home state or Indiana).

I think one reason why Toyota doesn't say much is that if Toyota says its trucks are all built in TX with all TX parts, then they won't be able to sell to Mexico as easily. If they emphasize Japanese parts, then they won't sell as much to the US. And the origin of parts vary somewhat, too.

Jeff

Jeff

Another 40% of the parts come from Asia. That is why the first number of the VIN on the Tundra is a '5' and not a '1,' like the Tacoma trucks made in the GM/Toyota plant in California ;)

mike

Evidence, please, Mike. You have been spewing crap about the first digit of the VIN indicates US content, but you have provided absolutely no evidence. By evidence, I mean a full URL, not just "Go to the Commerce Department and search."

The only thing the first digit of the VIN means is country of assembly, whether the vehicle was made with 100% US parts or 0% US parts.

Jeff

Mike, you need to quit making this claim. It is completely bogus and you have never provided any supporting evidence. Continually repeating wrong information does not make it true.

And you information is wrong besides. Tacomas also come with a "5" for the first digit.

As others have said - put up or shut up.

Ed

The truck beds come from Mexico. Where the other parts come from, I don't know.

Jeff

You forgot to say in my opinion :)

mike

You forgot to say in my opinion

As to Tacomas with a '5,' that seems odd since the UAW contract there requires 70% US content. In any event if that IS actually true, how do you account for the fact ANY Tacoma would have a '1' if it does not reflect content? Why is it the only Japanese vehicles, assembled in the US of at least 70% US content, like the Accord, Altama and Titan are the ones that have a '1' and not a '4' or '5?' ;)

mike

No, I didn't. There is no evidence, including the US code that requires the VIN, that the VIN has anything to do with US content.

So, it is not just my opinion. It is the opinion of everyone with any evidence.

Jeff

Evidence that the contract calls for 70% US content.

What Tacoma has a '1'?

I think I got it. There is a treaty between Mexico and the US that says that truck beds made in Baja California count as being made in the US, because, if they built the plant in the US near the border, all the workers would be from Mexico anyway.

Can you give me some examples of Hondas that are assembled in the US and have a '4' or '5'?

The only ones that have a '5' are the vans and SUVs. It's also funny that all the Honda cars begin with '1H', but the vans and SUVs begin with ''5FN" or "5J6". Wouldn't you expect the vans to begin with '5HN' or "5H6" (H instead of other letters)?

And isn't funny that all the cars have >70% US content, but all SUVs and vans have 70% US Content for Ford Dealers, between 40 and 70% for Mercury Dealers, and < 40% or Lincoln dealers? Of course not.

Please show us the URL that shows that VINs reflect content or stop making your stupid claims.

Jeff

I think it is pretty easy to sperate out my opinion. If something is a fact I usaully try to supply a reference. Maybe you should try providing a verifiable reference once in a while.

I stopped by the Toyota dealer last night and took a good look at domestic content labels. The average '07 Tundra has 75% domestic content. They still have a "5" for the first digit. The "5" is just the identifier Toyota was assigned for certain vehicles, just like Lincoln trucks get a "5" for the first digit. The theoretical average Tacoma only has 65% domestic content.

I also stopped by the Ford dealer, the average Mustang has 70% domestic content. They still get a "1". Since the "average" Mustang has 70% domestic content, V-8 Automatic Mustang must have a significantly high domestic content since they have US sourced engines and transmissions. V-6 Automatic Mustangs have significantly less that 70% domestic content since they have engines sourced from Germany and transmission sourced from France. I've seen in mentioned on the web that the domestic content for V-6 Mustangs is less than 60% - but they still get a "1" for the first digit, even thought they don't qualify as domestically produced vehicles (V-8 Mustangs do qualify). I saw one other interesting thing, 2007 Escapes are claimed to have 80% domestic content. 2008 Escapes only have 65% domestic content. They still get a "1" for the first digit. I am going to post other domestic content information in another thread. Feel free to comment.

Mike, you could easily stop us from thinking you are a fool by providing a verifiable reference that confirms that the first digit of the VIN has anything to do with domestic content. Why don't you do that? It is my belief that no such proof exists.

Ed

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Mike, buddy, you keep telling us to go look in the Congressional Record for the proof/citation/verification. Why don't you do that for us?

I still think you may be right, Mike, but it sure would be nice if you could provide us with a citation, like Ed asks for.

The Lincoln Navigator gets all of its interior and stuff from Canada. In fact, that is true of every single Lincoln truck and SUV. Also, they US Mexican steel. When the steel is from Mexico, but processed in the US, it counts as domestic content for the label, but not for the VIN. All the Mercury SUVs get a '4.' That's because they import some, but not, all of the components from Canada. Ans Mexican steel.

And they all manage to do this on the same assembly line and keep the different parts seperate. ;-)

And the Maxda Tribute and Ford Escape have different first letters for the VINs. I guess they get the steel for the Tribute in Mexico, too. ;-)

The real reason is that Mercury got its WMIs (the first three digits of the VIN, which is assigned by the SAE under contract to the USDOT) for the SUVs much later than for cars. By then, there were none that begin with '1'. Lincoln did the same. It got '5's for its trucks and SUVs.

You'll notice that there is only one WMI for each type of Ford, Mercury and Lincoln vehicle.

If the silly VIN conjecture was right, then there would be more than one WMI for at least some of the different vehicle types for each make.

I agree that no such proof exists, at least out side his imagination.

I will decide on my opinon of him after he either admits he made a mistake (hey, they happen) or coughs up the proof.

Jeff

if you go the US Department of Transportation, the people who are responsible for VINs under US law, you can search for VIN (or vehicle identification number) and find the actual US Code for VINs. Not a word about content here. That's why he doesn't do it there.

Jeff

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Jeff, thanks for mentioning that D.O.T. web page. It's chock-full of very interesting information. Much appreciated :-)

Unfortunately, the page still does not explain the mystical meanings of "1,4, and 5" that we've been debating about in this newsgroup for at least one-and-a-half years.

My $21 search at Lexis-Nexis many months ago uncovered nothing significant either. But I invite you to spend some of your money at LexisNexis.com because I don't want to lose any more of my money :-)