"Toyota Motor Corp. is preparing to raise prices of its new cars in the United States by an average 2 percent to 3 percent in October out of consideration to its struggling U.S. rivals, the Asahi daily said on Friday."
If you knew anything about the bond market you would know BBB bonds would be a good investment at this time. GM and Ford stock would be an even better place to invests some money right now.
mike hunt
Bucky wrote:
Unless they declare bankruptcy to get rid of their pension plans like United.
You must read one of the Tribune newspapers, if you think that. That's not going to happen. The UAW will do what it takes just like the did with Chrysler thirty year ago. ;)
mike hunt
Mark A wrote:
Actually looks like about +7 or so % from the start of the new year. Can't beat that with a S&P500 which is down about -1 %, LOL. Money market has started a slow rise, I'm getting 2 % now.
Bond funds are doing quite well in what I call a bear market.
One has to have guts and some money to blow to invest in Ford and GM, but long term it's a no brainer.
We can expect stupid comments on GM position from the Toyota fanatics in the NGs. They are not exactly Rhodes Scholars or they would not be paying way too much for their under powered over rated cars. ;)
GM stock price rose 7% from the price I paid just two weeks ago. Institutions that can not hold BBB are dumping them at 77C on the dollar that makes them a great buy, as well, as we speak. GM is not going away any more than Ford did five years ago when the Australian blew too much of its capital buying depressed European brands
mike hunt
Dbu~^ wrote:
Get 3.25%, FDIC insured.
Actually, you're the imbecile. You're the one who pays for overweight and technologically challenged vehicles. You're such fans of them yet you hang out at a newsgroup that is obviously for Toyota fans. It's like a Miami Dophin fan hanging out at a bar when it is full of Buffalo Bills fans. That person is the type that is looking to pick a fight intentionally. You spread lies here as if you think that you're being pernicious to people's loyalty to the brand. If you truly think that, then you're the one who isn't exactly a Rhode Scholar.
Look at the market capitalization of Toyota as compared to Ford or GM. Toyota could actually buyout GM, but it would lower its own stock price.
Of course Toyota could buy out GM... but why would they want to do that?
GM's market cap is so low, they could could buy themselves out. ($20B market cap compared to $300B debt).
The $30B is an over-hyped on generally misunderstood number. The vast majority, about 90%, is from the credit company, GMAC. Anyone know how much debt the other leading loan companies hold? And how GM's $30B of auto company debt compares to any other auto company's?
I don't think that debt is much of an issue. The real issue is the long-term retiree and worker obligations compared to their current and future market share. And even there, I suspect that the present crisis is somewhat media overblown. Just MHO.
In Japan a company can not be owned by a foreign corporation. ;)
mike hunt
BRaym>
Well, I'm reading this in alt.autos.toyota, so I'd expect at least one or two Toyota fans. Complaining about it would be rather stupid.
Our 2001 Sienna has more power (210 hp) and equal or better torque (220 ft-lbs) than the newest 2005 Chevy Venture (185/210) or the brand-new Uplander (200/220).
By the specs, at 3690 lbs with 210 hp vs 3838 lbs, the Sienna has 17.6 lbs to move per hp. The Venture has to push 20.7 lbs with each hp. The Uplander, at 4470 lbs, has to haul around 22.35 lbs per hp.
Which one's underpowered?
The numbers alone probably don't tell the entire performance story; the 4 year old Toyota has double-overhead cams with variable valve tming, where Chevy's latest have basic pushrod motors. The Sienna appears to have a very broad torque curve, the takeoff is very impressive for a minivan. That was the first thing I noticed when I test-drove it.
A comparably equipped Venture was listed for about the same as our Sienna when we bought it. The Chryslers we looked at were typically more. Which vehicle is worth more now? The Sienna by $5,000.
Who's paying too much?
You might be right but any time you buy a company that's actually losing money, you're taking on an increased element of risk. GM might be a good buy in the long run if they've got some strategy for making money that goes beyond beating up the labor force on costs. Can they bring products to market that people are going to want to buy and buy at good prices?
Let's look at Cherolet... Some may like it, for instance, but that Uplander looks just plain ugly to me. Ditto for the Malibu Maxx. They call that a wagon? Are they nuts?
Is their only convertible the Corvette? A convertible can bring people in to the showroom but how much pull does it have for your Cobalt market if your convertible is $52K? Does that SSR thing really count? Only holds two. Looks like it has all the utility of a Mazda Miata with none of Miata's pizazz - or owner loyalty. Does the demise of the Prowler suggest only a limited total retro market?
When's their first hybrid due out? That could be a profitable, high-margin vehicle for them, if they can bring it to market soon, before the market's saturated and they'll have to keep warrranty costs under control.
Dave wrote:
Hmm, good point. I'm don't claim to understand financial statements. But for the record, I did not mistype $300 B. Their debt really is $300 B, not $30 B.
I'll take another approach then: I noticed that GM has $15B cash, so they still almost can buy themselves out. I checked Ford too, and they're even closer. $18.7B cash compared to $19.1B market cap.
That may be your opinion but GM sells more cars and more trucks than Toyota, and you can drive home any one of them fromn less than a comparable Toyota and the same is true with Ford. Apparently more buyer today want what GM and Ford has to offer than what Toyota has to offer. As to power it all depends on the torque and where it it comes on in the RPMs range, not the HP. A
100 HP car can go over 100 MPH, but it will die on the grades and take forever to get up to speed. The 4cy Camry automatic is a prime example of a car that can not get out of its own way yet 8 out of 10 Camrys on the road are 4 cy.mike hunt
DH wrote:
Can (GM) bring products to market that people are going to want to buy and buy at good prices?
GM's on currently top in sales, sure, but they're losing money doing it and their market share is declining. In spite of home-field advantage in the biggest auto market in the world.
If 8 out of 10 Camrys are 4-cylinders, either:
- or -
I'm going with 3. Those 4-cylinder Camry owners probably enjoy the idea that they can merge safely onto the expressway and still enjoy 30+mpg fuel economy on trips.
One way or the other, GM has certainly put their own underpowered cars on the market over the years. Ever drive a 1982 Cavalier? 68hp and no noticeable torque until you were over 3000rpm. Ever drive a Chevette? Step on the gas on level ground and all you'd get was extra noise. Extra speed was not forthcoming.
And Ford? Ever drive a Pinto? There's a vehicle to be used only when the entire trip is downhill.
No, I mistyped. You are correct that the total debt is $300B, of which all but about $30B is GMAC's.
If you don't mind getting run over to save a few dollars on fuel, I guess that is OK One need not go without plenty of power to get decent fuel mileage. I own a 2005 V8 Lincoln LS with a five speed auto ls that easily gets 27 MPG and a 2005 Mustang GT 300 HP convertible with a five speed that get 25 MPH. I would rather be safe they save $200 a year on fuel.
I don't know what Pinto you ever drove but I happen to still own a 1971 Pinto with 198,000 on the clock. My car still holds a hill climbing record, for 2L sedans, I set with it back in
1972.I often hear from people at car shows, that were at that race, and talk about the guys with the BMWs, that dominated the 2L sedan class, they could not believe they were beaten by a Pinto. I was a lot younger and had lots of balls. I was not afraid to drive through the curves sideways like I did when I raced with Mario on the dirt tracks. LOL
mike hunt
DH wrote:
Ever drive a Pinto? There's a vehicle to be used only when the
The problem is drivers don't realize that HP is related to RPM. A 4 cylinder Camry has plenty of power if you get out of overdrive and keep the RPMs up. Most people are more interested in getting good gas mileage than racing on the highways, however.
Merritt
27MPG? 25MPG? I don't consider that to be particularly good gas mileage.
And, by the numbers (head room, leg room, rated engine power, etc), what you've got there in that Lincoln LS is a very expensive Toyota Camry SE V6, except the Camry has a bigger trunk, gets better gas mileage and lists for $8000 less. Glad you like the LS. Hope you got a good deal on it.
Well, I only drove one Pinto, once, but that was more than enough for me. I particularly liked the "strike on rear to ignite" feature.
It's no wonder your eyes are brown.
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