U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents

U.S. study finds driver error in most Toyota accidents Automaker acknowledges other research, independent corroboration is needed Staff and wire reports August 10, 2010 - 4:01 pm ET UPDATED: 8/10/10 6:56 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON -- Brakes weren't applied by drivers of Toyota vehicles in at least 35 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration, U.S. auto-safety regulators said after studying data recorders.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also saw no evidence of electronics-related causes for the accidents in reviewing the vehicle recorders, known as black boxes, the agency said today in a report to lawmakers.

The preliminary findings bolster Toyota's contentions that there's no evidence of flaws in electronic controls on its vehicles and that motorists in some cases confused the accelerator and brake pedals.

But Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons acknowledged this evening that the company's black boxes have limited capability because they typically produce data only when the airbag is activated.

"The data should also be independently corroborated, e.g., through physical evidence, other research, etc." he said in an e-mail to Automotive News.

Toyota's black boxes are built into the airbag sensor and usually begin recording only when the airbag is deployed, Lyons said.

Since November, Toyota has recalled 9.4 million vehicles worldwide, including 7.5 million in the U.S., for acceleration problems involving floor mats and sticky pedals, Lyons said.

"At this early point in its investigation, NHTSA officials have drawn no conclusions about additional causes of unintended acceleration in Toyotas beyond the two defects already known -- pedal entrapment and sticking gas pedals," the agency said in the report provided for a briefing to lawmakers in Washington.

In addition to the 60 percent of cases where brakes weren't used, NHTSA cited accidents in which the brakes were applied partially or the data recorder failed.

Toyota has conducted more than 4,000 on-site vehicle inspections, and said today it has not found electronic throttle controls to be a cause of unintended acceleration.

"Toyota's own vehicle evaluations have confirmed that the remedies it developed for sticking accelerator pedal and potential accelerator pedal entrapment by an unsecured or incompatible floor mat are effective," the company said.

"We have also confirmed several different causes for unintended acceleration reports, including pedal entrapment by floor mats, pedal misapplication and vehicle functions where a slight increase in engine speed is normal, such as engine idle up from a cold start or air conditioning loads."

In many cases studied by federal regulators, the driver made an allegation of unintended acceleration.

Questions about data

NHTSA said its study was limited to post 2007 vehicles because most Toyota models made before 2007 did not have black boxes that stored pre-crash data.

Most sudden acceleration complaints since 1999 occurred before 2007, according to a February study by Safety Research & Strategies, a research and advocacy firm funded in part by plaintiff lawyers.

A high proportion of these involved 2002-2006 Camrys and 2005-2006 Tacoma pick-up trucks, the study found.

"The idea that Toyota has been exonerated is preposterous given all the facts," said Sean Kane, the firm's president. "This is a small sampling of crashes."

Kane added that the vast majority of sudden acceleration incidents are at too low a speed to activate the black boxes. The NHTSA study is thus limited to an examination of high-speed crashes, he said.

In addition, Toyota itself has said in court that the scientific accuracy of its black boxes has never been validated, calling into question the validity of their data, Kane said.

Limited braking

Of the 58 recording devices analyzed, 35 showed that at the moment of the crash impact, the driver hadn't depressed the brake pedal at all, safety officials said. Fourteen more cases showed partial braking. In another nine cases, the brake had been depressed at the "last second" before impact.

The government's preliminary examination also said there were a handful of other crashes where the brake was pressed early and released, or in which the brake and gas pedals were pressed at the same time. There was one case of pedal entrapment by a floor mat.

In five cases, NHTSA said, the electronic recording device failed to work.

The agency is continuing its review of Toyota defects and is working with NASA, the U.S. space agency, and the National Academy of Sciences to probe the cause of the crashes.

Neil Roland and Bloomberg News contributed to this report

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Reply to
C. E. White
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you're a detroit shill "farmer" ed. trying to "blend in" by posting something we already knew doesn't work.

Reply to
jim beam

Isnt that what was found in the Audi cases some years ago? AFAIK, they never found a failure in the systems in those cases.

Reply to
hls

That leaves 23 of 58 crashes blamed on unintended acceleration where the driver DID apply the breaks. Interesting deflection technique, a technique of the guilty.

Reply to
Michael Dobony

They said "at least".. As I read the piece, the data from the car's computers is not as complete as would be desireable. So, they know that in 35 cases, no brakes were applied. In the others they dont know for sure, or there could have been brakes and accelerator simultaneously.

So, bottom line, you cant draw much of a conclusion one way or the other on this......except that in a substantial number of cases, the brakes were never applied, and in the rest the data is not conclusive.

At least that is the way I see it.

Reply to
hls

Who knows for sure? If what the Toyota spokesman says is true, the black boxes are set up to be useless. Recording *begins* after a car hits a tree? This contradicts what other sources have said in the past: The black boxes record 5 seconds of data at a time.

"But Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons acknowledged this evening that the company's black boxes have limited capability because they typically produce data only when the airbag is activated. ... Toyota's black boxes are built into the airbag sensor and usually begin recording only when the airbag is deployed, Lyons said."

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

By breaks, do you mean they were stopping for a snack?

Gee, how do you know? Perhaps 23 of the 58 crashes are still under investigation. Or, there was no way to difinitively say whether or not the brakes were applied.

Reply to
dr_jeff

You are correct. The official finding in the Audi situation was "pedal misapplication." Audi redesigned the pedals and evenutually renamed the cars.

Reply to
T.J. Higgins

The others had no record of anything.

How do you know breaks were applied? Were you there, causing the fault, or is it just your imagination. What about all the vehicles with automatic transmissions that would drop into reverse if left unattended and were never repaired because it would bankrupt the company?

Reply to
Clive

In message , JoeSpareBedroom writes

As the airbag is activated on impact, are you trying to tell the world that everyone takes their foot off of the brake the moment they know they're going to crash? I KNOW I wouldn't.

Reply to
Clive

We in fact dont know what happened. I dont remember specifically what cars dropped into reverse.. Could you refresh my memory?

Reply to
hls

Think it was Fords, back in the 70's... way long ago. only heard about it, cars were beaters before I was old enough to notice.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Dunno, but I had a Datsun 710 that dropped into reverse on the highway while the prindle was in drive. The end result was very exciting... it is amazing how much mechanical stuff is inside a transmission when all of a sudden it isn't inside any longer.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

ROTFLMAO>>>>

A friend of mine had a 53 or 54 Chevy with a Powerglide tranny that he used to intentionally drop into reverse so that he could emulate squealing tires. Amazing how tough those old trannies were..

In latter years, another friend ran dragsters and used 427 Ford crossbolt engines, but the same Powerglide tranny with computer control on those beasts.

We are damn near out of the period of time where we can do fun things with pieces of different cars. Shame

Reply to
hls

owledged this evening that the

The most important information occurs prior to impact.

Harry K

Reply to
Harry K

knowledged this evening that the

I made the same error. Mine was unsafe at any speed.

Reply to
His Highness the TibetanMonkey

That would be the column auto shift cars the ones where people would jam them into park without their foot on the brake pedal or the vehicle was still moving and the gearbox wouldn't properly engage park also due to laziness wouldn't pull the lever forward far enough so that the locking tag would wear out or break, in this case ther vehicle could then be shifted between park, reverse, neutral and drive without pulling the lever back(towards the steering wheel)

I have seen this plenty of times on older 60s and 70s cars and not just fords either

Kev

Reply to
Kev

snipped-for-privacy@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:i3v8e2$ghi$ snipped-for-privacy@panix2.panix.com:

The problem would be all the cars behind you annoyed at all the caltrops you dropped I imagine.

Reply to
chuckcar

"C. E. White" wrote in news:mt-dnThtVN8zgf_RnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

Pretty standard for accident investigation - you eliminate human error first because that's *always* the most common cause. In planes it's almost impossible to find other ones these days.

I still say that Toyota (at least the executive part) has handled this

*extremely* badly. They should have stuck by their guns and said "wait for the investigation to *find* the cause(s)". I can see at least one falling on his sword in the very near future. The CEO. It may even help their racing program. God knows they need to get the boardroom away from it.

"Toyota *hasn't* been exonerated". Typical unethical lawyer.

On another note, it's still clear that the web has a long way to go before it comes close to usenet's credibility - judging by the replies to that article at least.

Reply to
chuckcar

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