18,000 miles/year - is that high for a 2003 Camry?

You are NOT kidding...

Reply to
Bonehenge
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Or at people who use a leased business vehicle as a tax write-off.

My stepfather, a stockbroker, drove leased Porsches for years. When I asked him why he leased them rather than purchased them, that was the reason he gave. Granted, this was the late '60s and early '70s and California tax law has probably changed since then. But the point is that not *everybody* who leases a vehicle does so out of stupidity or ignorance. It seems reasonable to suspect that even today, there are people like my stepfather for whom leasing is actually a reasonable option.

Geoff

Reply to
Geoff Miller

One size that fits all is never the right answer, in my eyes anyone who buys a depreciating asset is a fool. You always come out a loser when you buy a car. That said, I own one car which I will keep about 10 years and I lease my other which I flip every 2 to 3 years.

Reply to
jdoe

You come out a loser when you LEASE a car.

Cars are losing propositions, period. But leases overall are bad deals, because the consumer protections that have evolved for finance transactions do NOT apply to leases, nor have any similar protections arisen.

What's happened with consumer leases, as a matter of fact, is that the people selling such leases have fine-tuned their ability to abuse even the moderately unwary customer.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

A.) You can still depreciate an owned vehicle. Look at all the heavy pickups and SUV's that get Section 179'd. I've purchased every single one of my business vehicles, every single one. Even a vehicle that's bought cash can be written off as depreciation, it doesn't even have to me new. Most of my trucks were 4 year old Ryders that were _surprise!_ lease returns.

B.) Business overhead is subtracted from what you keep. Technically non-business mileage is NOT deductible, so the 15 million people who use their business vehicle as a personal car are actually cheating on the ol' 1040.

The fact that a vehicle (or any other asset) is leased or financed has nothing to do with writeoffability (great word, if it existed!).

Most businesses lease vehicles because they turn them over often, and ending a lease is much easier than selling used vehicles. This is especially true for habitual lessees because a dealership will usually go easier on subjective "wear and tear" if you're swapping for a new one. Try turning a leased vehicle in planning to walk away, and watch how much worse the vehicle is judged as to "excess wear and tear".

C.) Most car or "passenger truck" leases aren't businesses, but meat with eyes who can't be bothered negotiating. I've got friends who sell cars, and they'll tell you that the "monthly payment buyer" is their best buddy! Most leases leave the lot sold to the lessor (a finance company) @ STICKER PRICE!

American consumers LOVE _easy_!

Reply to
Bonehenge

wtf are you babbling about, What protections? I've been leasing cars for more than 20 years and I've never needed any "consumer protection" getting any new car is a losing propositon but with a lease you can get a lot of car with very little money down versus buying a car with a down payement. I do it both ways and while leasing isn't for everyone it does meet the needs of many

Reply to
jdoe

more nonsense, I've leased many vehicles and have turned them all in, the worst thing I've ever been flagged for was worn tires

Reply to
jdoe

Probably because you're one of the very few who can handle themselves. According to the dealers I know, you're a rare breed.

Reply to
Bonehenge

Yes,that's hi. Average mileage in the U.S. is around 10,000. Average in California is around 12,000.

If all is true what you say about the Camry it still has a lot of good miles left. Go for it and Good Luck...

AS IN LIFE, IT'S THE JOURNEY, NOT THE DESTINATION THAT'S IMPORTANT.

Reply to
W.T. MC GLYNN

In leasing scams, perhaps - but that has little to do with the REAL world.

Reply to
Bob Ward

Depreciation is another made-up term to favor the leasing company. If you buy a car with the intention of driving it for its full servicable life, depreciation is irrelevant.

Reply to
Bob Ward

On 14 May 2006 12:33:59 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@u1.netgate.net (Geoff Miller) graced this newsgroup with:

I leased a vehicle once and I'll never do it again. At least, not for personal use. Besides the obvious fact that no matter how much or how long your contract is for, in the end, you never own the car unless you're willing to pay even more money.

Also, and this is what *really* bugged me, is that I had to pay annual personal property tax on a vehicle that I didn't even own! Not to mention, in Va., I also had to pay *sales tax* on what is in essence, a rental vehicle. I also had to pay for county decals, inspections and maintenance. Obviously, I knew this when I leased the car and, at the time, my reasons for leasing (I thought), outweighed these other factors. However, how the leasing company gets away with burdening the renter with ALL of the upkeep of *their* car is amazing.

If Budget or Hertz or any other car rental company required you to do the scheduled maintenance on their cars or pay personal property tax each time you rented a car from them, they'd have gone out of business years ago.

Reply to
kegler

He should spend less time "handling himself"... or at least wash up before offering to shake hands.

Reply to
Bob Ward

There's also the personal use taxable benefits. Many companies who has sales reps, managers, etc. w/company cars require monthly reporting for business and personal mileage. Of course it is only as accurate as the person reporting the mileage.

When many businesses lease vehicles they go through a fleet leasing company. The leasing company does not normally order their cars from dealerships, but instead order direct from the motor company. In this case, dealerships are only involved in what are considered "courtesy deliveries". Even though the car/truck is ordered directly through the motor company (such as Ford, GM Chrysler), it still passes through a dealership before it goes to the company leasing the vehicle.

Oh, and when the lessee is going through a leasing company, maintenance is usually monitored/controlled by the company fleet office or the leasing company.

Sold at sticker price only if the car is bought off of the dealership lot. Companies who has a large fleet of leased vehicles often have the prices negotiated with the leasing company and motor company. In this case, the lessor is not the finance company but the said leasing/management company.

That being said, the OP mentioned the car was inspected by different outside mechanics and bought the car. Buying a car that was previously on lease can go in many directions. It depends on how the original driver cared for the car, the make/model/year of the car and it's intended use. Sounds like this deal turned out well for the OP!

-Dave

Reply to
Dave L

No argument there- if, within the artificial reality of the tax code and generally accepted business accounting practices, leasing is the lower TCO, you should go that way. But I can think of almost no situation where an individual who is NOT getting reimbursed by their company is better off leasing. Aren't most company cars leased and plated in the company name these days anyway?

aem sends...

Reply to
ameijers

Leased cars can be owned/plated in the lessor's name and there would be a lessee. Other times, the company owns the car and has the leasing company help manage it.

Managing could mean maintenance, accident management, service cards, insurance cards, who else other than the employee is authorized to drive the car, assist the company with policies, etc... Much more involved in the back end.

-Dave

Reply to
Dave L

Although it is certainly possible, most _drivers_ would have a hard time tolerating a commute with that much city or traffic jam on the highway. Of course, use of the vehicle on the job (e.g. delivery vehicle, taxi, driving to customers to estimate jobs, etc.) could run up a lot of city mileage.

Reply to
Timothy J. Lee

You don't know what protections are offered to consumers under federal law with respect to actual loan transactions?

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

The key word is EXTRA. The reason they charge you EXTRA is because the EXTRA miles EXCEED the normal amount.

Thanks for proving my point. ;)

Reply to
Scott en Aztlán

You can't argue with simple mathematics (i.e. the arithmetic mean).

Don't lose focus. We're talking about NORMAL annual mileae for a car, not whether leasing is a smart move or not.

OK, so you put abnormally high miles onto your cars. So what? A few hundred million other drivers would have to do the same before 18,000 miles per year becomes "normaL" instead of "high."

Better tell that to automotive sites like Edmunds and KBB. They give a decreased valuation on cars that exceed a "normal" amount of miles per year.

Reply to
Scott en Aztlán

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