1999 Transmission/Differential Failure - EXPENSIVE

This is my first post, caused by a problem.

We have a '99 Camry with about 96,000 miles. Until recently the car's service had been spotless since purchase. Not a single repair since it left the showroom. Routine maintenance and nothing else.

About 1-1/2 weeks ago we were traveling on the highway. I turned, started to accelerate and heard a harsh 'clunk' and the car skidded to a stop - locked up tight. With help from some other motorists, we rocked the car, got it loosened up and was able to limp into a local town. We then trailered the car back to our home in Andover, KS.

After describing the incident to four separate transmission shops they all came to the same conclusion. Differential failure caused by grease leaking and leaving the lower unit dry. I mentioned never seeing a spot under the car and they said you don't. A seal between the differential and transmission sections of the transaxle fails allowing grease to migrate into the transmission. This leaves the differential dry but you might notice higher than normal fluid on the transmission dipstick. Apparently this is a very common Camry bug that often pops up in the 90,000 to 130,000 mile range.

Be warned - that dipstick reading doesn't tell you everything about transaxle fluids. If it ever comes up high or suddenly looks darker be suspicious. Also check the levels via the plugs on the case (this might be of marginal use since apparently this can occur and lead to failure pretty quickly).

Reply to
RonB
Loading thread data ...

left

leaking

into

a

be

That's a nightmare of a story,..but I have a question: doesn't the automatic trans and diff combination use the same auto-trans-fluid.? This is the case with the previous model.

On cars like the early Passat which were FWD, but had an inline engine/transaxle arrangement, the diff was Bevel-drive, which meant it *had* to use high-prssure diff oil just like any RearWD car. Now I had an old Passat which used to leak diff oil out via the speedo-drive (the way it did this was an exercise in amazing 'obscura' mechanics). It never went entirely dry and it did provide protection against diff oil getting into the auto,..how? By lowering the diff-oil- level well below the seal which stopped the interchange of those very different oils.

The shaft from the transmission was offset relative to the diff-crown wheel centre (which is normal for all 'hypoid-bevel drives) towrds the top of the diff, not the bottom. This helped to further separate the two units.

Jason

Reply to
Jason James

No. I have been told by several transmission shops that the case is divided into two parts - transmission and differential. The transmission uses standard automatic transmission fluid and the differential uses 70-8 wt gear grease. When the seal between the two is compromised the grease migrates into the transmission.

I had the transmission filter replaced and new automatic transmission fluid just a couple of months prior to the failure. After the problem, I checked the automatic transmission dipstick, cold, and the level was actually above the 'Hot' marking. It was also darker than expected because the grease was in with the fluid.

Reply to
RonB

Hmmm...my 97 Camry has the same trans/differntial as your 99 I think ... it uses Dexron fluid in both of them. NOT grease. Check your owners manual to make sure. The 4 cylinder model has a seperate cavity for the differential that is drained and filled seperate of the trans...when you take it in to have the trans fluid changed they will

9 out of 10 times NOT change the diff. fluid out of ignorance or laziness.
Reply to
ROBMURR

Yep - That is exactly what happened to us. Ours is a 4 banger. I certainly didn't know the difference and I am a bit of a car bug. I checked the transmission dipstick on a regular basis and was going along fat, dumb and happy. Now $1,800 poorer.

Reply to
RonB

That sounds closer to the truth. Someone neglected to change the differential fluid. There is a warning label on the transmission dipstick cautioning to also service the differential. Something similar happened to me, but without the drastic result. When purchasing a used car I always check and replace the gear oils since they are frequently neglected. The differential fluid came out looking like chocolate milk - should be light red color. Switched to Mobil 1 fully synthetic ATF, and has been fine ever since - have drained it at service intervals and looks as fresh as it went in. The odd part is that the prior owner furnished me with service records clearly showing the differential fuild had been changed. There was a separate charge broken out on the itemized receipt for labor and also for the differential oil - charge for parts.

Reply to
nospampls2002

transmission fluid just a couple of months prior to the failure>>>>>

What has usually happened when a diff failure occurs shortly after servicing a A140E transaxle is that the jiffy-mechanic drained the diff at its drain plug but did not fill it through its exclusive fill plug. Its very unlikely that your failure occured due to simply "not changing the diff fluid".

The fluid that comes out of these diffs (1.3 Quarts Dextron III) is usually fairly clean / red as it doesn't get overheated or mixed with friction material like the fluid in the trans housing. Therefore if it was left intact, you would probably never have a problem for a REALLY long time.

This is all to common practice and you may consider a small claims dispute with the shop if you are sure this is the cause. It is probably going to be difficult to prove, but it would help if you have a complete service history papertrail and you never service the car yourself. Also if you've always used the same shop you have the leverage of taking your business elsewhere, and loyal service could be a plus in court.

the automatic transmission dipstick, cold, and the level was actually above the 'Hot' marking. It was also darker than expected because the grease was in with the fluid.>>>>>>

I hope you checked it with the engine running, right? The dark fluid is due both to trans temperature and to black friction material swimming in the fluid. Unless you drain and fill the unit several times (2.5 Quarts Dextron III with pan removal) or use a flushing machine it will still look VERY dark if it started out dark.

To sum up, I'm not on a crusade against fellow mechanics, just ones who don't do their job properly. It's a real common scene with the venerable 4cyl. Camrys and I get sick every time I see it happen. Good luck.

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Comboverfish

check it running . it sounds like they drained all of the fluid and filled it from the top but didnt use the fill plug on rear of the diff.

Reply to
toyotawiz

What happend in my case is a couple of seals failed - one in tatters the other compromised in one area. The differential grease migrated into the Dextron in the transmission part of the case actually raising the Dextron level a bit. Lower end starved and failed. This occured about 2 months after a fluid and filter change and I know the Dextron level was ok because I checked it after the change. The mechanic, who I totally trust, said he added a small amount of grease to the lower end but it actually looked ok.

I have known this mechanic for a long time and he is one of the most honest guys I know, so I have to believe this was just a premature failure of the seals.

Reply to
RonB

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.