Hi, I hope someone can help me. I have a 1996 Camry and had it parked in a parking lot when an elderly driver trying to back a pickup into the next spot veered over and put a large dent in my drivers side rear quarter panel. I know for a fact that this is what happened because I was still in my car at the time. I had just pulled into the spot and saw the truck starting to back into the next spot so I was waiting for the truck to finish parking before opening my door.
At first the other driver admitted fault, and his insurance company was going to pay the $1200 to fix the car, then they suddenly reversed and claimed that two witnesses who were watching the parking lot from the building came forward and claimed that I was trying to steal the trucks parking spot. So the accident was judged to be my fault.
We contacted our own insurance company, and they said that when they spoke to the 'witnesses', they were sitting in the car next to me at the time! Plus the other driver (who initially told me, my husband, and his insurance company that it was his fault because he tried to back into a parking space without checking behind him) also changed his story and said that I admitted that I was in a hurry, so I (apparently) tried to slip into the other guys spot and I (supposedly) admitted fault.
No one will tell me the name of these 'witnesses', the DMV won't give me a copy of the accident report, the other driver claims he doesn't know who they are, his insurance company won't provide me with a copy of anyone's statement and my own insurance company won't either. My own insurance company actually claimed he couldn't give me the names of the witnesses because "he didn't want anything bad to happen to them"!!!
My insurance company says they'll pay for the fix if I pay the $500 deductable, but they won't tell me if I was judged to be at fault, and they won't tell me if my insurance rates will go up. I don't have $500, anyway.
Is there anyway the shape of the dent can be used to tell more about the true cause of the accident?
No one called the police. They won't come to a fender-bender in a parking lot unless someone was injured or the incident escalated into violence. At the time the other guy was apologetic and cooperative. It wasn't until later (after the old fellow's son got into the picture) that the mysterious 'witnesses' showed up and the other driver changed his story.
Now my husband and I are dealing with an outside insurance arbitrator and in the process of putting together our case. WE can't get the DMV reports, or the insurance company's reports, or the statements of the other parties involved, but the arbitrator can.
I have to prove that I am right and three other people are wrong. We have diagrams of the parking lot and pictures of the dent. I'd like to know if there is a way of looking at the dent and proving that my car was sitting still when the accident occurred. We've heard that a dent can be 'read' - that someone with experience can tell if both vehicles were moving or only one vehicle moving. I'd like to know if that's true, and if so, how does one go about presenting this evidence? Are there specially trained people whose word would carry weight with the arbritrator? Or would the word of the auto body shop suffice?
True Story . My dad was trying to park at the grocery store lot, a kid in a mustang pulled in and took the spot , my dad and the kid got out the kid said ' This is what you can do when you are young and quick" My dad got in his Cadillac Deville and rammed the car, got out and said " this is what you can do when your old and rich" They have witnesses? and you dont have 500. Ok, next case.
Our DMV doesn't provide the reports as of last year due to privacy issues. Our insurance company also gave the same reason for not providing written reports, however they did verbally give me a quick rundown of what was said, but they wouldn't give me the names of the witnesses because I didn't have that info to begin with.
My husband went to the manager of the building where the collision took place, she said she was on vacation when the incident happened, but that she'd "heard rumors" about it from her staff (This is an Assisted Living facility where my MIL lives - the other driver was there visiting friends and we were going over to collect MIL to take her shopping). The manager provided a blueprint of the parking lot but wouldn't give any other information. We have been reluctant to make a scene because MIL is in very poor health and we don't want her to feel stuck in the middle.
I had a guy block me in on the street parking illegaly at the crosswalk in Chgo, I had a Full size Blazer, A few drinks in me I couldnt Leave so I put it in 4wd and pushed him in the intersection , and left. People do this stuff all the time Its not NEW
Hell I did that about 15 years ago and unfortunately I was stone cold sober or better stark raving sober at the time. Was in the middle of one of my quit smoking times. Needless to say it was either drink or smoke afterwards. I chose the smoking. Wife was not impressed with me. Nor was the woman in the car with a neck brace on that I was pushing out of the way. Most embarrassing day for everyone concerned--I just lost it!
Shelly, just do the same thing they did, tell them it was the other drivers fault and then when in court, you'll be able to see everyone. If they can say they weretn at fault and turn everything upside down, why cant you do the same?
Well, we were trying to avoid court, but my husband is getting pretty upset, and it may end up there. We're going through the insurance arbritrator first because they will be able to get all the pertinent information in one spot and then he/she will be able to see that (if the verbal information we've been given so far) every one else involved has changed their stories, whereas I have not.
I pulled into an empty parking spot. The other guy was trying to pull into the spot next to me, but suddenly increased speed and veered out of his spot at the same time. I was parked. My engine was off. The keys were out of the ignition. My seatbelt had been unbuckled. I had time to check the area and determine that another driver was trying to back his long-bed pickup into the spot next to me. I had time to tell my kids not to open the doors because another vehicle was moving nearby. When the speed increased and the vehicle veered toward me, I didn't have time to do anything to stop it.
This should be cut and dried. But the insurance companies refused to accept testimony of my kids aged 18, 15, 10, and 8 because they said the kids would lie for their mom. They wouldn't listen to the testimony of my husband, who came out of the building and also spoke with the other driver (who also apologized to my husband for hitting my car and stated that the accident was entirely his fault because he didn't check behind him before backing up) for the same reason.
Here is what happened: I pulled into the parking lot of **** (an Assisted Living facility) where my mother-in-law is a resident. My husband was already there with his wheelchair-access van we use when we need to transport MIL. We were all going to a store where the two oldest girls were going to do some clothes shopping. Arriving in the parking lot, I pulled saw a white pickup parked in the center of the parking lot. At first I thought the driver was backing into a parking space, but the truck was not moving and the driver appeared to be looking down toward his lap. Assuming the pickup driver was waiting for someone to come out of the building, I parked in the spot next to the one I had first thought the pickup was going to back into. Looking in my sideview mirror, I could see that my husband had not yet brought his mother out, so I decided to see if he needed any help getting her ready to go.
I turned off the ignition and unbuckled the seat belt, when I noticed that the white pickup was now backing up. The truck was backing straight into the empty parking spot on my left. I warned the kids not to open any doors because someone was trying to park next to us. Then the truck appeared to pick up speed and at the same time turned so the truck was now heading right to my car. I didn't have time to honk my horn or do more than realize that we were about to get hit, when the truck struck the left rear quarter panal of my car, hitting hard enought to push the back of my car sideways for perhaps four to six inches. The truck stopped immediately.
I jumped out of my car and walked toward the back of it, shouting "What did you do?". The truck pulled forward several feet and then the driver opened his door, jumped out and walked back to me. He looked right at me and said "I'm sorry ma'am. I didn't look before I backed up." I was very upset, I went back to the car to check on the kids. The kids were upset and the two youngest were crying. I asked my 15 year old daughter to go into the building and get her father. Mr. J. then identified himself, started asking me for my insurance information, and had his own insurance card out trying to get me to take it. I was trying to calm down the crying children and telling my
18 year old daughter to get into the glove box to get out the insurance information.
At this point I became aware of new voices yelling and looked up to see two women coming from the building. I believe they were employees there, but I can't remember talking to them or what they were saying. I was under the impression that they were making sure there were no injuries. Then Mr. J. claimed my attention and was asking me about the extent of the damages to my car, also he was still trying to give me his insurance information. My daughter was still looking for my insurance information and yelling at the other two kids to be quiet. At some point I noticed that the two women were gone.
Mr. J. and I examined the damage to my car and looked at his truck to see if there was any damage there. We couldn't find any damage, but there was white paint transfer on my car.
At this point my husband (C.) came from the building and walked up to Mr. J. and I. C. looked at my car and cussed. Mr. J. turned toward him, stuck his hand out and introduced himself. They shook hands, C. identified himself and asked what happened. Mr. J. again apologized for hitting my car and again admitted fault by explaining that he backed up without looking.
C. went to the glove box, found the insurance information and he and Mr. J. passed the information back and forth. Then my husband went back into the building to get his mother. Mr. J. and I spoke together for a few minutes, and he mentioned that he "haven't been doing very well since my wife died" I asked him when that happened, and he said it had been two years ago. He said they had been married
52 years, and he just hadn't been able to get over it, so I assumed that he was implying some kind of diminished capacity had affected his driving.
This happened on a Saturday in August. The following Monday my husband called Mr. J's insurance company (Hartford Insurance Company of Midwest). They stated that his insurance was currently insured and that he had already filed a report. Hartford said they would call us back in two days. We didn't hear from them for two weeks, so I called them myself. Guess what? The agent in charge just happened to be getting ready to call me! What a coinincidence! Anyway, the Hartford agent asked me to give her a recorded statement, so I did.
At first, Hartford appeared to want to pay for the damage. They asked us to get an estimate and a photo of the damage to be faxed to them. We did so.
On 9/20, I got a letter from Hartford saying: "We have had an opportunity to investigate your claim to make a proper determination of its merits. Based upon the information currently available, we do not find any liability on the part of our insured.
"As our obligation as an insurer is to pay only those claims for which our insured is legally responsible, we must therefore deny your claim for damages.
"Regrettably the facts do not allow me to respond in a more favorable manner, but if you should have any additional information that you feel would alter our position, or any questions, please contact me directly at 1 800 811-4832 Ext. ????????"
I called the number, was told that 'two witnesses were watching from the building, the witnesses said that I pulled into the parking spot that Mr. J was trying to pull into, causing the accident myself. These witnesses also reported that I became very argumentative, after they calmed me down, they said that I admitted fault. I did NOT admit fault, and I never spoke to these people. The agent/rep stated that he/she could not give me any further information and advised me to go find these witnesses myself.
The same day, my husband again spoke with Mr. J and Mr. J said that he thought that the claim was going to be handled to my satisfaction, he said that the two witnesses came up to him and supplied their names to him as witnesses. He said that he filed a report with the DMV, says the filed report states the HE backed into a PARKED car, and that the accident was HIS fault. He then called Hartford Insurance and says that he told Hartford that the accident was HIS fault. He said that he would call Hartford Insurance and discuss the claim with them..
Five days later my husband got a call at work from a person claiming he/she worked for Hartford saying that Mr. J did not want to talk to either my husband or I. He/She also said that based on witness accounts, Hartford would not pay for damage.
My husband called Mr. J once more and left a message on the answering machine saying that saying that he wanted to speak with Mr. J to compare notes on what Hartford was telling him, in case the issue ended up in court, C didn't want Mr. J to get blindsided.
Three hours later Mr. J called back and said that he filed an accident report the morning after the accident (which would have been Sunday, I think he meant the following Monday), took the accident report back to
***** and asked if anyone there saw the accident. Two women said they saw the accident and filled out information on the report for Mr. J. Mr. J said he didn't know who the 'girls' are, nor what they put on the report.
Mr. Jayne also says that his insurance company said that it was up to us to turn our information into our insurance company, and the case would go into arbitration.
At first our own insurance company (California Casualty) said that everything would be OK, they'd take care of it. Then they called and said that Hartford will again deny the claim because they had "powerful statements" from the witnesses. The California Causality rep said the witnesses told him/her that they were SITTING IN THE CAR NET TO ME when the accident occurred, and that I entered the parking lot at a high rate of speed and pulled into the SAME parking spot that Mr. J was trying to back into.
The CC rep also said he/she had spoken to Mr. J and mentioned how nice Mr. J was. He/She also said the Mr. J said that I had told him I was in a hurry, and then I supposededly admitted that I was at fault. TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY THAN BEFORE!
The CC rep also said that he/she couldn't give me the names of the witnesses because he/she "didn't want anything bad to happen to them"! But he/she did say that they were employees of *****.
So there you have it. I am apparently a very scary person (although physically the only way I could worry someone is if the layed down and let me sit on them... I'm rather heavy...) My husband is actually a big, muscular guy [yum!], but he's not violent - however he has on occasion spoken very sternly to the staff of the Assisted Living facility about the care his mother was recieving - if her meds are late, she's not being bathed often enough, meals are late, the staff is being rude, or left sitting in her wheelchair (she has Parkinson's and usually can't transfer from bed to chair without assistance) then he will tell the manager that his mother is paying several thousand dollars a month for round the clock care, and she'd better receive it, or we'll move her.
Unfortunately, MIL is in a very bad way both physically and mentally, and we don't know if she could survive a move to another facility, so MIL will probably stay put. Another problem is that if we complain about something, some of the staff members go to MIL's room and tell her about it. She then gets worried that the staff will be mad at her and maybe not care for her properly, so she then gets mad at us! We're in between a rock and a hard place...
I'll have to look into that, the mediation was something my husband set up. I thought the mediator was an impartial third party, but I saw nothing in the form about giving up the right to go to court. Luckily, I haven't sent in the form or my statements yet as I was still building my case. I'll check into this more thouroughly - thank you for that information, I'd never have thought of it myself.
Yes, this may end up in court, I was just trying to avoid it, but it is appearing to me more likely.
lol, but no, there truely were no injuries, and I just couldn't fake it, it would feel very dishonest.
We have avoided asking because my MIL lives there and is in extremely poor health. We're not sure she could handle a move to another place, and quite frankly, we are not sure that she would be allowed to stay out of it. As it stands, every time we've complained about things, the employees go to her room and tell her that we got them in trouble. Then MIL gets worried they'll take it out on her in some way. She's actually broke down crying and apologizing to the staff for our actions! The staff walks out feeling vindicated, MIL is upset and worried, and usually angry with hubby and I for getting her in trouble.
Her mind isn't there 100%, and we can't make her understand why we care. Her standard of care is OK, but there have been enough slip-ups on things that my husband and I feel we need to keep a close eye on the situation to make sure things stay OK.
So we have more of an adversarial relationship with the staff than we would like, and they close ranks around each other all the time, so we feel we wouldn't get any answers and that it would get back to MIL that we were 'causing trouble' again.
Sorry to hear about your daughter's trouble. I suspect we're going to get screwed, but not without a fight.
I think you need to talk to a lawyer about the collision and the actions at the care facility. Have you spoken to anyone there about them harassing your MIL? Can she provide you with names? I think they are on thin ice, if you can prove it. Many lawyers will take a case on contingency, they only get paid if you win, and most will give you the first interview for free. You can ask when you call for an appointment. My son is an accident reconstructionist and does accident investigations for the Marines and part-time work for a private investigation firm in southern CA. He said the dent can possibly be read, depending on it's size and depth, and the scene needs to be checked for additional information, the sooner the better. You should be able to find someone be looking in the Yellow Pages or through your insurance company.
We did call a couple of attorneys, but they never called back. I don't think that a $1286 auto repair bill is something they consider worth their time.
As for the assisted living center, the standard of care is adequate, nothing to sue over. We just insist that MIL gets bathed when according to her schedule, has her call button answered promplty, meds are ontime, personal care is provided as necessary, help dressing and transfering is provided when needed. Sometimes these things don't happen. When it appears to be developing a pattern, we don't wait for things to denigrate into a life-threatening situation, we react right away.
Thank you! I was hoping that there was something I could do! So I'm looking for an accident reconstructionist?
Well... I'm not trying to get anything except my car fixed. My car isn't unsafe, just ugly (now). There are no physical damages, and I feel that all the members of my family aren't suffering (MIL has forgotten about it, every time she sees the dent she is surprised, we tell someone hit the car and that we're working on getting it fixed, within a couple of days she has forgotten all about it, so she's not suffering either.) Thanks for caring, but I don't want extra money, just want my car fixed.
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