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Catastrophic Oil Loss

I have a 99 Camry, 4 cylinder, with approximately 144k miles. On 21 Jul 2009, I visited a local oil change shop that I used for years and had my oil/filter changed. I drove about 4 to 5 miles and noticed the engine stumbled briefly, or lost power, twice. I immediately checked my instrument panel and noted the engine oil light was red. In an instant, I turned the engine off and pulled over. The oil filter was off because the tech mounted the wrong size and I lost most of my oil. I called the oil change place and reported the problem. The car was towed to a Toyota dealer where the engine oil/filter was replaced. The mechanic heard no knocks or noise and pronounced that he was 99 percent sure there was no internal engine damage, but couldn't be certain without disassembling the engine. He also said there was just enough oil in the pan to keep the bearings lubricated. I've noted a few brief episodes of the engine stumbling or brief losses of power since the event. I've been checking the oil regularly and note that I've lost over a quart in the 2700 miles I've traveled since the event, about twice the loss rate that existed before the event. Today I did some research and am a bit miffed to learn that such an event could damage the oil pump, valves, camshaft, rod and crankshaft bearings, crankshaft, pistons, scoring of cylinder walls, and worst case engine seizure. I'm covered as the oil change place owner guaranteed, in writing, he would repair any damage that became obvious within 5,000 miles of the event. I fear that as soon as the

5,000 miles are exhausted, the engine will fail or quit running. Barring tearing down the engine, what should I insist be done to cover my rear? I've covered by my auto insurance and the insurance of the oil change station. Should I ask for a "leak down test" or some other diagnostic procedure...or let them "tear it down"? Just as sure as I ignore problem, my engine will fail.
Reply to
bosco1003
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You could try a leakdown test. You can also switch to the lightest oil the manual suggests and document oil consumption. I suppose you have to, ironically, hope for blue smoke...

Reply to
Leftie

You deserve a new motor and rental, in 5 minutes about 50-150,000 miles of wear occured with No Oil, yes internaly it melted metal to wear away fast. If they rebuild it it wont be the same as a what you had and you have no guarntee they will do it right. You are better getting it replaced. There are slightly used motors sometimes avalaible as my mom totaled a Corolla with 256 miles on it. A rebuild will probably cost more in the long run for you with the headaches you could endure from mistakes, like leaks.I would want a running motor, not somebody taking it apart, putting parts around collecting dirt that is bad for it.

Reply to
ransley

Looks like you got said oil change joint by the short and hairies on this one. Being the car is a 99 why not ask for a cash settlement of something like the price of a new engine then trade the car in. I am sure you could get 3 or 4 grand and that's more than the car is worth on the market today.

Reply to
mikewestvale

Looks like you got said oil change joint by the short and hairies on this one. Being the car is a 99 why not ask for a cash settlement of something like the price of a new engine then trade the car in. I am sure you could get 3 or 4 grand and that's more than the car is worth on the market today.

Boy, I agree. Document your oil consumption, get a written assessment from a qualified mechanic (Toyota Dealer) relative to the possible damage and the need for a teardown. Get the best settlement you can and then trade the car. The engine is now an accident waiting to happen--it's a matter of when. MLD

Reply to
MLD

Just thought I'd chime in with the *ethical* solution: get the money for a rebuilt engine, and then...get a rebuilt engine installed, or a used one. Don't pass the car along to bankrupt some poor sap down the line.

Reply to
Leftie

You deserve a new motor and rental, in 5 minutes about 50-150,000 miles of wear occured with No Oil, yes internaly it melted metal to wear away fast.

*******Can you cite credible sources on these figures?

If they rebuild it it wont be the same as a what you had and you have no guarntee they will do it right.

*******It is possible to remanufacture an engine to a condition as good as or better than new...But you are correct in that you have no proof that this level of competence will result.

You are better getting it replaced. There are slightly used motors sometimes avalaible as my mom totaled a Corolla with 256 miles on it. A rebuild will probably cost more in the long run for you with the headaches you could endure from mistakes, like leaks.I would want a running motor, not somebody taking it apart, putting parts around collecting dirt that is bad for it.

********Sometimes you can get a really good engine out of a junker. They dont come too cheap, maybe. And you dont know if some s*****ad ran it without oil changes, or dogged it, or what.

The truth, in this situation, I am afraid is that it will be very difficult - if not impossible - to prove that any significant damage was done. Even on new cars, some brands have called oil usage of 1000 miles per quart, or higher, within normal limits.

This is the reason I change my own oil on our Avalon and Solara convertible. What kind of mechanic do you think works at this sort of an oil change emporium?? Not the top of the line, I assure you.

Reply to
hls

I have heard this kind of figures bandied about for years, but nobody ever cites a source.

I did a google on it, and found the following:

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But read carefully....the cause of the wear may not be the loss of lubrication, but the corrosive effects of gases in the system during startup. They say that each startup is roughly equivalent to "500 miles of.. .. driving".

Ah so...corrosion rather than abrasion??? Maybe.

It has been reported many times that, according to the accursed oil analyses, iron content (indicating "wear"?) is greater right after an oil change than in the weeks following....Some say this is a reason not to change oil so frequently.

Might it be that the innards of an engine are filled with atmospheric oxygen during the change, and the initial indications of wear are instead the effects of initial corrosion? Maybe.. I dont know. If someone would run a test by performing the oil change, flushing the block with nitrogen, and repeating the tests, maybe we could explain this previously curious phenomenon.

NACE, where do you stand on the wear versus corrosion issue? (This is tongue in cheek.. NACE members should know why....)

Reply to
hls

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