Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

According to the Genuine Fluids page at an online service garage called Arts Automotive:

"Toyota is claiming their Type T-IV ATF does not need to be replaced under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4 is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote]

What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my '06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles. The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any bad odor or discoloration of the red ATF when I looked at it yesterday via the dipstick.

That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant.

The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant:

"We recommend replacing the coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with Toyota Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their Super-Duper Long Life Coolant :) [end quote]

Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only allow you to go 5 years or 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter. I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant.

Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every

3 years or 30,000 miles?
Reply to
Built_Well
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Any recommendations that exceed what the manufactuer reccommends and that are made by a garage that makes money by doing services, esp maint, are suspect. They are just looking to line their pockets. If the manufactuer says 100K you will be very safe doing it at half that if you want extra security. Same for the coolant.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

Dipstick always look better than the drained oil I must say from experience. How does it look on clean tissue *compared* to new fluid on clean tissue?

Toyota doesn't expect the first owner to keep their cars past about 4 years. If that fits you, by all means stick to the factory schedule and save money. However, if you keep a car longer than that, as in "2005 the overall median age for automobiles was 8.9 years", then you may want to perform more frequent preventative maintenance on it.

The Type IV ATF is just a re-labeled conventional (dino) Mobil-3309 ATF. Nothing special about it. For about the same price I'd rather use Mobil-1 Fully Synthetic ATF (the new formulation). I'd think Mobil knows that it's Mobil-1 ATF is compatible with it's dino Mobil-3309.

Conventional ATF usually don't last over 50-60K miles under normal service. So 30K miles under normal service for a dino oil would be a

*safe bet*, since Aisin transmission like to load up the fluild with particles, so 15K isn't unreasonable on the A-series and indeed is what Toyota specified for severe service.

However, T-IV is for the U-series clunkers that don't seem to put as much crap into the fluid as the older A-series. So maybe 30K? You decide. Synthetics are good for 100-120K miles under normal service. However, 60K miles under severe service. Maybe use Mobil-1 in your refill?

Reply to
john

Now, think about it. The manufacturer has a vested interest in the vehicle not lasting TOO long, therefore, it would be in the interest of the manufacturer to recommend LESS maintenance that what would be the ideal amount.

Reply to
Sharx35

Toyota pre-mixed Pink, which is basically half of GM's Dexcool (without the fast acting 2EHA plasticizer acid), showed "significant weight loss" (metal corrosion) in lab tests. It's not as good a corrosion fighter as the red, but the red has the disadvantage of just a 2-year service life.

If you plan to trade in the car after 4 years, no need to change the coolant. Otherwise I personally would do at 3-4 years for 5-year coolants (Pink, Dexcool, Preston All-Makes, G12, G-05, etc). Some people even drive with 200K mile old timing belt. Your call.

Generally you don't want 2EHA in cooling systems not properly designed to work with it. So stick with Red or Pink.

Reply to
john

BTW, your 06 Camry with the 2.4L engine? It has the problem of head bolt coming loose because 1-3 head bolt threads disintegrate in the back near the manifold insulation.

Is this corrosion from water jacket? Don't know, but it typically happens between 50-100K miles, even maintained at the dealer. Looks like Toyota wants to charge owners $4000-6000 to replace the engine if out of warranty. Good luck.

Posted by: mag176 The car was dealer maintained for the first 47,000 miles, I took it over after that because we moved. What the tech is telling me is that the gasket blew because the head bolts are loose. They are pulling the threads right out of the block. It=E2=80=99s going to have a short block installed later in the week. Im told they are fixing the ones that are caught under warranty, tough luck to everyone else. If anyone can hook me up with info about other owners,tsb or any like info I would appreciate it. Thanks again, Mark

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Reply to
john

I think that the folks who designed and built your car are probably more knowledgeable and have spend more time, money, and effort on R&D on your car than Arts Garage, who may not have the resources to even acquire a Toyota franchise.

If you really want to go overboard, change the ATF at 60,000 miles.

Cars that come with the pink Toyota Super Long Life coolant should not be refilled with red Toyota Long Life coolant, although cars that came with the red Long Life can be filled with Super Long Life. It is safe to follow Toyota's recommendations on replacement intervals.

The Super Long Life comes pre-mixed so it should not be diluted.

Reply to
Ray O

Reply to
john

I think that you are overdoing this for some strange reason.

A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without changing ATF fluid.

A modern vehicle should be able to go 50-100,000 miles without changing coolant.

Any mass retailer, Wal-mart,etc, can sell you the fluid or coolant that you would need to do this.

Toyota only cares that you spend your money on their products.

The only thing that changing fluids early means is that you changed the fluid early.

Forget the internet and drive...

Reply to
es8m

I agree with your point, but I would change the ATF **AT** 50K miles, not somewhere between 50 and 100. 15k is just silly though.

Coolant should be changed based on time, not mileage. Old green stuff is good for 2 years, modern OAT 5.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

In the first year or two of the 2AZ-FE's production, the block threads weren't formed completely to the top of the holes. That was corrected and I never saw a headbolt problem after that. This 2004 Camry post would seem to disagree with my ascertation, but the main problem was addressed early on. The 2004 is probably a fluke, not representative of the later models. Speaking of small samples, I'm running a 2001 Highlander with 110k miles and no problems so far - and have never

*thought* about the potential headbolt problem even once (until now) :-)

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

==========

Thanks for your post. Makes me feel better :-)

Wish I could say I was completely freed of concern, though. Like that writer at either CamryForums.com or ToyotaNation.com , I had visions of my Camry living to 300,000 miles or 500,000 miles. Now not so sure :-(

Does your '01 Highlander have the plastic intake manifold with foam rubber insulation between the manifold and block/head like the problem Toyotas, or an aluminum manifold? One speculation is this cheaper plastic manifold is causing a high heat spot which can lead to

3 nearby head bolts working loose. Maybe it's a combination of factors at play: the plastic manifold with foam rubber insulation and the ill-formed threads that you mentioned.

An '01 Lexus car was described as having its head bolts work loose, too. Don't know if the Lexus used a plastic intake manifold.

Reply to
Built_Well

My 2008 Avalon doesn't even had a dipstick for the tranny. The owners manual says to "inspect" the transmission fluid at 30K miles and then every

30K after that. I bet I can predict what the dealer will tell me at 30K miles, 60K miles, etc. So where is the trans. fill point when there is no dipstick?

Tim K

Reply to
tkloth

I'd look for a plug bolt somewhere on the case above the pan.

Reply to
Ray O

Thanks JohnGdole for your great posts! You've certainly given me lots to think about :-)

Do you have a link for the report that showed "significant weight loss (metal corrosion) in lab tests" of the newer pink Toyota Super Long Life coolant? You mentioned the pink Super Long Life isn't as good of a corrosion fighter as the older red Long Life, but the pink Super doesn't have to be replaced every 2 years like the red.

And thanks a million for mentioning that head bolt loosening "glitch."

You also mentioned that Toyota's "Type IV ATF is just a re-labeled conventional (dino) Mobil-3309 ATF. Nothing special about it. For about the same price I'd rather use Mobil-1 Fully Synthetic ATF (the new formulation). I'd think Mobil knows that it's Mobil-1 ATF is compatible with it's dino Mobil-3309." [end quote]

I've been reading that some folks are using Amsoil's Synthetic ATF in place of the Toyota Type IV in their cars. Do you know if the Amsoil synthetic ATF is compatible with the '06 Camry's transmission?

Would it be okay to simply do a drain-and-fill with the Amsoil ATF? This would result in my Camry's ATF fluid being about 40 percent Amsoil and about 60 percent Toyota T-IV, since about 60 percent of the ATF is found in the torque converter, which isn't drained when performing a simple drain and fill. Or would a full flush be required to get all the T-IV ATF out of the car before introducing the Amsoil synthetic ATF?

Reply to
Built_Well

That's why I said to cut the recommendation in half if you want some extra security. But there is certainly zero reason to be changing the ATF every 15,000 miles unless you are using your car to pull a fifth wheel.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

I think you are partly off base on your last statement. Coolant only goes "bad" from the loss of corrosion protection. Corrosion is just chemical reaction. Almost without exception, and I see no reason this would be one, chemical reactions occurs faster at higher temperatures. So the interval for changing coolant should be based mainly on mileage, not time. It's only while the car is adding mileage that the engine is nice and hot and those chemical reactions are perking. When it's just sitting, not much is going on. The green stuff is plenty good enough for more then two years. Motor mag did an in depth story about anti freezes a couple years ago and talked with engineers from several car companies. They were pretty straightforward and said the green stuff was easily good for 3/36 if not longer but they can't take chances so they are conservative. They also talked about the many issues of using the "wrong" coolant and how it could cause lots of problems due to the different metals and gaskets speced by different car companies. Another bit of info I picked up somewhere back in the days of no coolant recovery was that one of the most detrimental things you can do is to keep opening up the radiator cap to check the coolant and letting "fresh' air get in. Any fresh air with oxygen just adds fuel to the corrosion process. One of the reasons the "new" coolants last longer is that modern systems are almost completely sealed against air getting in. I think Chevy even had a service bulletin about this early on in the dexcool saga.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

On my Mazda it's the gear/cable for the speedometer. Then again, I have a mechanical speedo...and a 5-speed to boot.

Like Ray said, look for a plug. It's probably set up like a manual trans.

Reply to
Hachiroku

Hide quoted text -

Ethylene glycol coolants will also gel if left to sit long enough; another reason to change them. I've seen it happen in old but unopened bottles of standard green coolant as well as in neglected systems. This is not necessarily the same gelling that occurs when coolant gets hot and mixed with oxygen-rich atmospheric air at the same time, though as a non-chemist I'll leave that one up to the smarter folk. As far as newer systems being "sealed better" - I don't see it. Properly operating systems all the way back to the first use of overflow bottles starting prominently in the 70's sealed their cooling systems just fine.

Coolants primarily fail due to system problems like air entry. Tiny issues could go unnoticed for the life of a car, so in the unfortunate event that you have such a minor cooling system defect, the 2 year limit on standard coolant is a good rule of thumb. I certainly wouldn't push it too much further even if your engine was checked by God himself. As a side note, damn near every GM engine on the road has a really hogh possibility of some sort of cooling system breach, whether you can test for it or not... as a result I do not recommend blindly following the 5 year Dexcool replacement interval, or the 100k to 150k(!) mileage interval. I can't remember a GM yet that didn't get a coolant change due to failed cooling system parts replacement before 150k miles anyway. It's like Audi and their POS use of lifetime G012. Lifetime? Lifetime of the timing belt interval? Lifetime of the failed waterpump or secondary water pump on turbo models? Which lifetime are we talking about, Audi? It sounds like a convenient way to delete the *very* costly radiator drain plug on some of their POS models.

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

Well! Look who's back!

(You snuck in the Toyota group via backdoor, ie, Crossposting...)

Reply to
Hachiroku

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