Dealer recommended services is not needed?

Earlier Today I went to a North NJ Toyota dealer for my regular 5k miles oil change and tire rotation. My 4cyl Camry from May 2006 now has 45k miles. I waited inside enjoying my coffee when the service adviser approached me about my car. He said the following items need to be replaced and performed: Throttle body service-$109.95; Replace rear brake pads and reface the rotors-$285; replace engine air filter and cabin filters-$119; replace PCV assy -$25. I asked him why my rear pads worn out first since in my experience front pads always wear out first, he responded by saying my car has ABS and traction control or VSC which automatically applies the brakes as required by the road condition. "My car has no VSC?" I replied but he insisted that I did. Anyway, I turned down all the other services and requested him to perform only the oil change, because of monetary issues (but I didn't tell him that).

After my oil change, I went to auto zone and bought a $19.99 tool set. I never DIY my camry since I got it almost 3 years ago, nor performed throttle body service and brake work on any of my cars. I would consider myself average in minor auto repair.

My question for the group are as follows:

Does this throttle body look bad? I'm not aware of a sticking pedal on our Camry. Maybe I'm just used to driving the car, maybe if somebody drove my car they would notice it? normal view of throttle body ..

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view of throttle body ..
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..
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Would you recommend refacing my rear rotors? Or should I just replace pads, myself. Accdg. to Toyota, 2mm remains on my rear pads and 6mm in the front. Its impossible for me to DIY my rotors.
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I would say my rotors are still ok, I dont see any grooveson my rotors. I do not have any squealing noise on my brakes, which Irecall indicate a wornout pad. Sorry, but I didn't bother taking outthe whole wheel to get a better picture.

Is the VSC standard on the Camry?, I think its an add on feature and I didn't get them when I bought the car. Why did my rear pads go bad before the front pads?

Is my engine air filter really that bad? Those guys didn't even bother opening my air filter housing, when I took out my filter, small debris fell off easily! Dealer replaced my air filter less than a year ago at about 20k miles+/- 5k I cant remember anymore.

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And lastly, where the hell is my PCV! and how did they know its gone bad? maybe on my next visit, they would recommend to replace my EGR valve (...which I don't know where either)

Reply to
EdV
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This is a common complaint of dealer service. Sorry.

45k on the rear brakes is not normal service life. As a general rule, one ought to get rear brake life vs. front brake life at a ratio of two to one -- two sets fo front brakes to a set of rear brakes. At 45k, it might be reasonable to replace the front brakes, I seriously doubt the rear brakes need any attention at all.

You can remove the tires to expose the brake pads and rotors for a simple inspection.

I doubt you need throttle body work.

replace engine

You can replace the air filters EASILY by yourself. If you can pump gas, you can replace filters.

replace PCV assy -$25.

The PVC is fine. Your car may not even have one of these because the car makers figured out they can accomplish the same task with a simple orifice, and not a delicate arrangement of springs and steel balls.

I asked him

EVEN IF your car had VSC, your car is Front Wheel Drive, so the traction control would be applied to the front wheels, not the rear.

My daughter had a Tacoma PreRunner that the deaqlership told her she needed a shopping car foull of parts at about the same mileage as you have. I inspected the brakes and found that they had something in the range of 75% of service life remaining -- I went and bought new pads, THEN found the old pads were nearly as thick as the new ones.

You can easily replace pads and rotors at home, assuming you have reasonably strong mechanical skills and abilities. Basically, if you can identify the working end of a screwdriver, you ought to be okay. I think your rotors are fine, and your brakes should be okay too. I would expect your front brakes to need new pads about now, and your rear brakes to be calling for pads at about 90k miles.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

note that you said "MY regular 5k miles" services.

You should have asked him which Sears Auto location he worked at before coming to this dealership.

It's none of his business regardless, but the REAL reason should have been because you know what services your car needs because you're following the manufacturer's recommendations.

Hurting his feelings should be the absolute LAST consideration here. It shouldn't even be on your mind.

You'd notice it. Therefore, it's not doing it. Therefore, don't worry about it. But if you're a worrier, cleaning it is not hard to do. USE THROTTLE BODY CLEANER. Nothing else.

This last guy did not open your air cleaner assembly if you had crud drop out of it when YOU opened it. It's also 99.999999% likely, based on your description, that while you PAID for a new air filter a year ago, the dealer did not actually replace it a year ago.

Don't go back there. Find someone else. A dealer is a good guy to have a good relationship with, if you can find a good dealer. If not, find a good indy shop--ask your friends, check out Car Talk's web site, etc.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

I agree with all of your points EXCEPT the one about having the filter replaced a year ago.

I'd like to add, if the filter _was_ replaced a year ago (and 5,000 miles, according to the OP's report), then it does not need to be replaced again, unless he lives at the end of a dirt road, and most of those 5k miles are in his driveway.

The guy that didn't open the air cleaner box is the one that said last week that he needs a new filter.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Your throttle body is clean and does not require any service at this time. The usual symptom is a sticcking throttle pedal, and the inside has a sticky varnish-like coating that can be cleaned with carburetor cleaner and some paper towels.

The rotors appear to be fine. I do not like machining rotors because they have a tendency to warp abour a year later. I would just replace the pads and lubricate the slide bolts and sleeves. I believe that the minimum pad thickness is 1 mm, but I like to replace them at 2 mm to reduce the chance of scoring the rotors. Pay attention to the slide bolts and sleeves if the pads have worn that quickly.

I do not think that VSC is standard on the Camry. If you have the feature, there will be a button or switch marked "VSC Off."

Most likely a sticking slide or sleeve.

The air filter does not look that bad. I would replace it according to the factory recommendations.

The PCV is usually located in the valve cover and is connected to the throttle body by a hose about the diameter of your thumb. Not all cars have one, and they should last over 60,000 miles. Judging from the very clean condition of your throttle body, the PCV, if your car has one, is fine. PCV's need replacement when the oil fumes gum it up.

Reply to
Ray O

Thanks for all the replies.

Ray O - since you mentioned lubricating the slide bolts and sleeves, what lubricant do you use?

Jeff - ratio of 2 to 1, that is how I imagined it to be, maybe an industry standard too. I always bring the car to the same dealer, they should have noticed that my rear pads wore first earlier and alerted me. It always says on the printout that the techs inspected brakes. But that's already asking too much from them.

Elmo - Well I have to go back there, its close to where I live but only for parts, I will do my own service while the weather permits it. But when winter comes maybe I'll be forced to get service from them unless I find another shop, I'll visit car talks website.

and now that you mentioned they didn't actually replaced my air filter, I think that they never really did inspect the chassis nuts and bolts as indicated in the service package. You CANT visually inspect a tight bolt. It should be re-torqued and not just look at it, right?

tak - Maybe when you got the 45k rear brake service they fixed the rear assy and now you get correct the 2:1 ratio front to back service.

Reply to
Ed

DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER

NOT carb cleaner. THROTTLE BODY cleaner.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

I wish but no, replaced the pads and rotors at 45k rear and 71k front.

Reply to
tak

You mean he didn't try to sell you the Bilstein Wallet Flush?

I went to a dealer today for an oil change and he tried to sell me a bunch of other services. I left without even the oil change. I can't trust that dealer. Last time I took a vehicle there they used the wrong oil in the oil change.

I did return later in the day with a parts coupon (from another dealer) and bought parts for DIY or my regular mechanic to use on our three Toyotas. $4.29 for a Toyota filter, including the drain plug gasket that they usually charge an extra $1.20 for (probably making it the highest margin part they sell at 800% mark-up).

Reply to
SMS

Ed wrote in news:b86d678c-918b-4c14-8534- snipped-for-privacy@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

Sil-Glyde for anything in contact with rubber.

Surely they did. Inspection means possible new business.

Since few people pay much attention at all to their brakes until they have very obvious symptoms of very bad problems, you often do find lots of problems when they finally do take the car in. Neglect = Ka-ching!

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Those don't ever actually come loose, in my experience. The admonition to check them is probably in case the factory missed one somewhere.

Reply to
Tegger

Ed is right on the money, and I'm not even going to look at your pictures.

Most of these are add-on's; services to "help" the car and generate extra cash at the dealership. Don't hold the dealership as the only one at fault; all car dealerships and repair shops can and will do this. When I bought the wife's 2002 camery, I denied the extended warranty. It had

40,000 miles on it, re just went over 100,000. In this time I have turned the ft rotors about 10,000 miles ago- pulsation, and new pads on it a week ago. That's at least 60,000 on those pads. Flushed the transmission at 40k, 1 serp belt, 2 air filters, 2 cabin air filters. oil changes every 3-5k Soon is another trans flush and a coolant flush. This car has been great. The suggested warranty schedule had nothing "needed" to be changes, only inspected. See what the service interval "requires" to be done. follow that to maintain the warranty. If you do any work yourself, document it and save the receipts. Steve
Reply to
S.Hansen

The factory manual recommends carburetor cleaner. Toyota does not line the inside of the throttle bodies with the stuff that is dissolved by carb cleaner.

Reply to
Ray O

I now recommend Sil-Glyde, which was recommended to me by Tegger.

The 2 to 1 ratio is not so much an industry standard as the effects of physics. When the brakes are applied, the vehicle's weight shifts forward and so the front brakes do the majority of the work stopping and so they wear more quickly.

Reply to
Ray O

The problem with "carb cleaner" is not the damage to internal parts of the throttle body, its because not all "Carb cleaners" are Oxigen sensor safe, and you stand a good chance of "poisoning " the sensor(= big $$$) if you use the wrong product. HTH JerryR

Reply to
JerryR

are there any TSBs on 2007 Camry brake system because of rear pads going bad before the front pads?

Reply to
Ed

I get really uneasy when a service rep starts recommending clearly un-needed services, especially when it's clear that he's not examined the stuff that he claims need replacement. It indicates that the service department simply can't be trusted for even the simplest tasks.

The infamous Bilstein wallet flush (as the guys on CarTalk call it) is one good indicator. The advice to replace air filters without even looking at them is another.

Reply to
SMS

Take the car to a brake shop and see them measure the brake pads, I bet you are ok. The first photo of air filter looks good, exposure or white balance on the other two make it look dirty, from photo 1, filter is fine. Throttle body is cleaned with a very special spray, but at your miles I would pass unless you see contamination, thats just my unprofessional opinion though. Pvc valves can be cleaned in solvent but I bet you are ok for another 60,000 unless you have a oil burner, and that should be DIY. If you do pads rotors and drums should be turned , but have other places look at them. Hey they need money and you got free dognuts and coffee, what you have had happen is what always happens to me at any dealership. Find a local mechanic that has a good rep for your work.The best mechanics Ive found have a packed lot and dont want you business for a few days, watch out for the mechanic that has no cars and isnt busy.

Reply to
ransley

Hmmm, I wonder why the Toyota factory repair manual would recommend carb cleaner if there was a danger or poisoning the O2 sensor...

Reply to
Ray O

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