had brakes adjusted - how to undo?

Everytime you go in reverse and brake the rears adjust. I would just be sure they spin freely, over tightening can make them bind, its normal to get over 100000 miles on the rears

Hmm... so what would cause the brake pedal to feel different...? It's not nearly as responsive as it used to be; I really have to press hard on the brake pedal to get the car to slow down.

I've got close to 140k miles on my '96. Still going strong.

Thanks,

Michael

With that many miles it could be a weak master cilinder, air in lines, and worn pads drums and rotors. Adjust them, but be sure they spin freely. With that many miles you might replace everything soon, my 91 even rusted out the lines, I lost braking going around a corner. But to have to push harder if brakes are adjusted look into the master cilinder or air in lines.

Ok, so that's not normal then... thanks for the tip.

Michael

Short of changing out the proportioning valve I don't see how the mechanic can get the rear brakes to "work harder" than physically designed into the valve by loaded spring. Now if he brought the shoes closer to the drum they might remain in partial contact and cause drag on the drums. The spec is to turn the star wheel to shoe contact then bring back 8 clicks. I would stick with that.

Hard pedal can be a number of things, among the mentioned also: glazed brake pads (like typical of NBK pads which I don't use). Use Akebono instead. Or the calipers pistons or caliper pins may be sticking. Look at caliper/pad or shoe/drum combinations before the master cylinder or booster, as the latter are less likely to go bad. You can also ask what was done.

Make sure all the brake hardware are properly lubed. I use Permatex synthetic brake gel.

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

======== Rear disk or drum? I wouldn't really expect this, but since you say it occurred after work --- if a careless mechanic left a bit of grease or oil on any of the braking surfaces, that would cause braking effort to increase. Going over the braking surfaces with a fine grit emery paper should remove any contamination. Usually, brake cleaner is sprayed on parts prior to final assembly to prevent this.

I've got rear drums.

All I had him do (other than adjust brakes) was to change the brake fluid. It was the first time the fluid had ever been changed, at around 130k miles. (The guy said it was like syrup coming out.)

Now that I know how to change brake fluid myself, my dad and I will never make that mistake again...

It's been harder to brake for about a year now, so I'd hope any oil on the drums/rotors would have burned off by now...

Michael

You know, it's very possible that's what he did... change it to 3 clicks instead of 8. How do I change this myself?

Michael

Anyone who has left their handbrake on and driven the car, would have noticed the pedal height at the point of brake actuation is very high, and you can get a harder pedal, . The dynamics of the master-cylinder have been altered, especialy the position of the primary and secondry pistons. I would back off the rear brakes to return them to normal.

Jason

Forgot to add: my theory here is the rear shoes are so close to the drum, the pedal movement is decreased, and *maybe* effecting the booster's ability to apply assistance. The booster needs some travel in its rod to uncover the vacuum assistance port which applies pressure to the booster's diaphragm and hence applies assistance.

Adjust the rear brakes as johngdole mentioned.

Jason

Just to clarify:

Parking brake hand lever: 5-8 clicks to activate parking brake.

Star wheel initial tension: 1996 Camry 3 clicks according to Autozone's free repair guide. (Not the 8 clicks I mentioned earlier. That's for drum-in-disc. My bad).

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Jack the car up and see if the rear drums are binding - that's doubtful. If you have a problem with braking, most likely the problem will be with the front brakes. Check for something wrong with your vac booster - check the vac hoses. Also check your front pads for brake fluid contamination. Good luck.

David

Problem appears to be solved. Thanks to everyone who replied.

Jacked the car up, spun a rear wheel; wheel turned maybe 1/2 way before I heard a scraping sound. Not good.

Removed the rear drum, and adjusted the star gear with a flathead screwdriver. The right rear gear needed a lot of adjustment; guessing somewhere between half and one rotation of the star gear. The left rear star gear only needed adjustment by about 5 clicks. I've still got maybe 3mm of rear brake pad material.

Parking brake now engages after 6-8 clicks.

Notes: I discovered that I couldn't tell if the star gear was loosened properly just by putting the rear drum on, and spinning. I had to put the whole tire back on, tighten lug nuts somewhat, THEN spin. (If I just spun the drum, even though the star gear was very loose already, I would still hear a scraping sound.) If, with the wheel on, I heard ANY scraping sound at all, I loosened the star gear a few notches. If I heard nothing, I tightened the star gear a few notches. Repeated maybe 5 or 6 times. (Oh, my back! ;-)

My car now brakes the way it used to.

Thanks again to everyone who helped.

Michael

That's all normal. The drum needs to be seated to spin properly. The scraping sound is normal provided there are no bright metal shavings. Sometimes the middle locating pin falls out and the shoe rubs the drum lateraly,..tho the clip would be in there all scrunched up. Glad to hear its OK. Jason

What I do is apply the brakes a few times to seat/align the shoes. You have to do this every time you adjust the starwheel to get things in line. I don't feel the need to put the tire back on to check for scraping but I suppose it can't hurt.

I don't think it's a good idea to adjust the shoes using the parking brake as a clearance gauge. There's probably a separate adjustment for cable stretch on the handle which should be set after the rear brakes have been properly adjusted.

It's great that you've solved your problem.

David

Please ignor my previous post. Drum in disc explains the entire story. This is only for the parking brake drum and has nothing to do with the rear disc braking.

Yeah, the drums for the drum-in-disc system need 8 clicks of star wheel clearance but isn't used in normal braking. Just thinking of the wrong system.

However, the regular drums need 3 clicks of star wheel for the initial tension, according to Autozone's free online repair guide on the 96 Camry.

His result showed that his shoe clearances were too tight. Star wheels automatically adjust to reduce the clearance, but they can't increase them and that seems to be the problem. :)

snipped-for-privacy@nospam.nix wrote:

Ah, that explains it! I was wondering why my "self-adjusting" brake system wouldn't "self-adjust" to loosen.

So, if I got this right, basically, I can set the star wheel to super- loose, and it will automatically self-adjust to tighten, right?

fwiw, I've got rear drums, front disc.

Michael

Yes, it's supposed to. Just make sure everything is clean and properly lubed so you won't have one side properly adjusted and the other side stuck open.

One thing here: when the shoes are loose and you step on the brake pedal, the pedal will go to the floor or nearly so. If there are buildup in the less used portion of the master cylinder bore, the rubber piston cups can be damaged. So use the parking brake lever to adjust first, and then gently step on the pedal to test that it's firm. After that make sure the brakes work before driving off.