Is 5W-30 oil bad for engine longevity??

Over the past year or so, my otherwise flawless '99 Camry 4 cyl. has begun to occasionally ( 2 or 3 times a month) emit a large puff of white smoke at the instant the engine fires up. Present mileage is only 90,000 kilometers and I can't think of any reasons other than wear in valve seals/lifters/guides. Oil and filter have been changed every 5000 to 6000 kilometers and consumption is about half a litre between changes. This also began happening with my previous '87 4 cyl. Camry, but only after

150,000 or so kilometers (and using 10W-30 oil). This is not a pressing problem right now (except perhaps to Toyota's reputation when my neighbour notices!) but I'm wondering about further deterioration.

I'm using the recommended 5W-30 oil and recall a few years back when Rick Jones (MDT) was the lifeblood of this group, that he stated his personal belief in staying with 10W30 oil for engine longevity. With that in mind, I have two questions I would appreciate opinion on, especially from professional mechanics:

  1. Is this engine known to be prone to early valve seal problems?

  1. Would it be better to stay with 5W-30 oil or switch to 10W-30 to try and minimize the problem ( temperatures here stay well above 0 degrees F) ( out of curiousity, I checked my old '87 Haynes Manual vs. the new one and engine clearances didn't change from '87 to '99, just the recommended preferred oil weight.)

Thnx for any input

Al

( By the way, anyone know what happened to Rick Jones - his input to the group is really missed.)

Reply to
Allan
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I had the same problem at 60,000 miles. I switched to one of the High mileage oils which will swell the oil seals slightly and keep them supple and I have not had the startup smoke problem since. I am now at

198,000 miles. Oh I use 10-30 Pennzoil most of the year 10-40 when its really hot.
Reply to
Rob

White smoke could be a cracked head or a leaking head gasket. Watch the coolant level very closely. If you are loosing coolant, and there is no external leaking, you may want to pull the head and check things out. Before you do this, have an oil analysis performed. They will be able to tell you if you have coolant in your oil. There may be other causes for white smoke but this is one of the most common.

Reply to
Clay

White smoke is very common with higher mileage Camrys and usually is not a serious enough problem to pull the head. As noted, using a high mileage oil or higher viscosity oil will often help.

Reply to
Mark A

Isn't White smoke indicative of a water leak, and isn't it blue smoke that indicates oil consumption?

Regardless of color; "oil smoke" smells like oil; "water smoke" (steam...) is essentially odorless.

What do you think you're burning...oil or water?

Chuck

Reply to
c

Thanks for the replies. I should have mentioned that the puff of smoke only occurs on startup in the morning after the car has been sitting overnight. Think it is oil smoke as I've only added a wee bit of coolant to the overflow tank a couple of times and I think this was a short while after the coolant had been drained and refilled at 3 and 5 years. Hard to tell by smell as the exhaust on cold startup is pretty foul in any case. After the initial puff, any visible exhaust smoke guickly disappears.

Al

Reply to
Allan

Both 5W30 and 10W30 are 30 weight oils at normal temperature. The 5W or

10W really refers to viscosity index, which is a measure of how well oils maintain there nominal viscosity over temperature. The 5W oil will "thicken" less than the 10W oil at low temperatures, and therefore is preferred for low temperature operation (for starting only--once the engine and oil is warm, it doesn't make any difference).

Toyota says that if your temps never go below 0 degrees Fahrenheit, 10W30 is acceptable. To cover a wider range of temperatures (below zero), you should use 5W30.

Bottom line is your choice of oil (5W30) has nothing to do with your problem. Since you say temps stay well above 0 F, you could just as well use 10W30. At those temps, there should be almost no difference in viscosity.

I suspect your problem may be due to bad valve seals. It is certainly possible for the seals to be bad by 90,000 km (56,000 miles). I have a '92 Camry (4 cylinder) where the valve seals were replaced at 30,000 miles. Cost was about $95 at a Toyota dealer. Valve seals seem to fail at fairly random mileages.

I just bought a 2000 Avalon (V6, of course) with 70,000 miles and it smokes on startup. I am taking it in this Thursday to find out the problem, but I am expecting it to be the valve seals (actually, I am crossing my fingers, hoping that is all it is)

Merritt

Reply to
Merritt Mullen

The problem I have is that the smoke always just seems to be some shade of grey. I guess the smell test is the determinant.

Merritt

Reply to
Merritt Mullen

Oil weight at operating temp is one thing. Sheer strength (the oil film on the metal) is another. Historically, thicker grades of oil (10w30, 10w40) add more protection in that the oil coating (sheer strength) is thicker, thus protecting the metal. More and more oils are getting lighter to give manufacturers better MPG numbers (thinner oil is more fluid and has less resistance and thus gives better mpg), but it takes away from the metal protection.

I would run with 10W30 year round as it will give you the protection and since it is above 0, you don't need a 5 grade oil.

Reply to
Car Guy

Rick Jones is at "Toyotas_Only" on Yahoo.

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(although qslim has been quite informative here in his absence)

------------------------ Years ago some guy with racing engines running oil comparisons for himself told me Pennzoil ranked far down on the list. His favorite at the time was Kendall, but that's always been hard to find. Anyway, my understanding is that "high mileage oils" like many "oil treatment" products can "swell the seals". Somehow I never liked that idea. Seems the Toyota design for valve guides is such that when the seals harden with heat aging, a small amount of oil can seep past them over night when the engine cools. Conceptually, I feel this is outweighed by all the other good things about the valve mechanism - like almost never needing adjustment and true vertical actuation minimizing valve guide wear, plus very light reciprocating mass. In my opinion there is the potential for that puff of smoke on start up to more rapidly foul the oxygen sensor over time. I tried the Lucas oil products - in the engine it had the unexpected benefit of eliminating the puff of smoke on start up; doesn't swell the seals, contains no solvents or particulates, works for me - over

200,000 Km (132,000 miles). Personally, I don't think switching to 10W30 will make any difference. The only potential benefit might be that supposedly a narrower viscosity spread is better for conventional oils because less viscosity improver is required.
Reply to
Daniel

Depends on your weather as to which grade you want to use. In winter here we have ranges like 34 to 80f, I use 10-40 for this time of year,. Summer is

60 to 105 f, I use 20-50 for that,..both Dino-oil in a '96 with 170,000 ks changed at 3000ks. Oddly enough it used to puff a blue-white smoke cloud on start-up when I first bought it at 155,000 ks. That stopped. I use Castrol oil GTX-2 and GTX 3 winter.

Jason

Reply to
Jason James

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I had a 1994 Camry with the same symptoms and was quoted $1200 for valve seal replacement. Someone suggested PCV valve replacement and that cured it of the morning blues.

I have a 1997 Camry with same engine as yours and it exhibited this problem with 60K when I bought it from the dealer and they replaced valve stem seals, piston rings and rod bearings at their own expense.

Reply to
badgolferman

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