Malibu vs Camry - have Chevy dealers grown a pair?

How many more miles? Before retirement,..at least 500,000miles here, some depending on body condition a couple of hundred thousand more. Here many taxi trips are between towns which are minimum 80 to 200 mile 'round trips. Increasing amount of Toyota Camry V6s are doing the job these days. The mix presently is about 60/40 Ford/Toyota. There is always the odd owner who will put a Benz or some other exotic on the road to probably write some tax off with,..but ultimately they want "reliability" first and last, as time off the road = money lost.

Jason

GM's record year: 2007, announced 4th May 2007. ;) Ok, I'm otherwise staying outta this one.

reports record sales and better automotive profits for firstquarter

4th May 2007

General Motors today announced record global sales, and improved automotive profitability and operating cash flow for the for the first quarter of 2007m but net income was $62 million compared with $602 million a year earlier, a fall which GM said was more than accounted for by losses in GMAC's residential mortgage business, driven by continued weakness in the U.S. nonprime mortgage sector.

You guys are hilarious, any car on the market today is a far better car than was on the market fifteen and twenty years ago, and they were better than those from fifteen and twenty years before that. If you had owned Toyotas from the same period that you owned the domestics you would have had as many problems or more.

mike

I've been very pleased with imports (except BMW & Fiat) since I last purchased a Pontiac in 1969. American automotive manufacturers screwed me over so badly that they lost me as a potential customer forever.

Purchased so far:

6 Toyotas 2 Mazdas 2 Subarus 1 Acura 1 Datsun (now Nissan)

Actually it is pretty easy to find unhappy Toyota owners. Consumer Reports has a readers comment area on it's on-line site and there are quite a few unhappy Camry owners who took the time to comment there. As part of the site, each of the respondents can rate the car by "stars" 1 thru 5. Here is a comparison

Camry (2007) - 159 total respondents - average "stars" = 4.2

- "5" - 96 (60.4%)

- "4" - 28 (17.6%)

- "3" - 15 (9.4%)

- "2" - 11 (6.9%)

- "1" - 9 (5.7%) Impala (2006 + 2007) - 39 respondents - average "stars" = 4.6

- "5" - 28 (71.8%)

- "4" - 9 (23.1%)

- "3" - 1 (2.6%)

- "2" - 1 (2.6%)

- "1" - 0 (0.0%) Ford Fusion (2006+2007) - 40 repsondents - average "stars" = 4.7

- "5" - 32 (80.0%)

- "4" - 7 (17.5%)

- "3" - 0 (0.0%)

- "2" - 0 (0.0%)

- "1" - 1 (2.5%)

So among Consumer Reports readers that choose to enter a comment, the Camry is running behind both the Impala and the Fusion.

Here are several of the more negative Camry comments -

"Bought the Camry new. After a week, the radio/cd player would not light up and would cut off. Tapping the dashboard would bring sound and lights back. Entire radio/CD unit was replaced under warranty. Most serious issue is the transmission's hesitation. Dangerous situation when entering the Interstate. When gas pedal is depressed, car does not accelerates as expected, then suddenly, it jumps forwar with high RPM. Dealer claims that cars above Corollas have this problem. There are fixes for specific VIN numbers, buy my vehicle is not in that group. Dealer says there is nothing they can do. I am filing claims with Toyota to get my money back. The car is dangerous and my safety is at serious risks."

-------

"Pros: exterior design, safety features, ride "Cons: poor quality build and materials, problems

"precise steering, stability control works very well and breaks are good. BUT transmission hesitates to shift and too much body sway."

"Ride is relatively comfortable, but when accelerating hard engine noise is too loud."

"Squeaks and rattles throughout the dashboard beginning in cold weather. Stereo system projects too much light into the cabin. Cruise control does not work well. Water entered the fuel filler door and froze the cap ring. Interior materials are fragile. This car does not seem like it will last. I am going to trade it."

-------

"The almighty Toyota has blinked. Gas milage is poor compared to sticker 24-34. overall 19-20mpg.wind noise and engine noise. Trans. late to kick in can be dangerous in certian situations. Save your money. back to dealer 3 times for rattles from dash and console.i cant say enough SAVE YOUR MONEY"

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These comments are not typical of the comments. Most Camry comments are very positiove, but both the Impala and Fusion had a higher percentage of positive comments. Does this prove Toyota Camrys are bad cars? Certainly not. But it should make it clear that they are nothing special either. Even Conumer Report reader didn't rate the Camry any better than it two cheif domestic competitors.

Ed

I'm sure the used car salesmen love you, but thanks for proving the point that one can not judge todays car by comparing them to cars they owned almost forty years ago. Even a Toyota fanatic would have a tough time comparing their 1969 to a 2007 LOL

mike

One need not go to a chat room to find a lot of unhappy former Toyota owners. Simply drive past and brand dealership at look at all of the Toyotas that were traded on that brand. The local Mazda dealer here has a

2007 Camry >

Funny, all those comments are from a guy named Mike? Resale values tell the truth, check edmonds true cost to own and that will tell the whole story. There's always someone who has had a bad experience with any car make, and that's most often what you read about. I won't say my Camry is perfect, but far better than the domestics we stopped buying around 2000 & 2001. Once burned it's hard to go look again.

REb

The problems I had with GM cars, Saturn, Chevy, were broken seat adjusters, bad brakes (3 times under warranty) , bad alternator, bad fuel injection system, and always sqeaks and rattles and poor fitting interior parts (noe that the dealer could fix) .

My Toyotas have had issues, minor rattle (dealer fixed), loose seat track (dealer fixed) , but no powertrain/brake/major electrical system failures. Big difference

After warranty the cost soars on the major repairs.

Reb

Isn't that strange, I have the opposite experience. After a dozen or so, I stopped buying Toyotas and Lexus' in 1999. The Toyotas and Lexus' were great cars, but so are the domestics I have been buying. The only real difference I have found is the domestic dealer treats me better and I have been saving thousands of dollars buying the domestics I now buy, as well as hundreds of dollars a year less when servicing them at the dealership.

mike

ROFLOL. We've been over that before. The local Chevy dealership doesn't have a single Toyota on the lot. The salesmen come out and drool on mine if I drive onto the lot.

They did get one Toyota last year; my elderly neighbor's. I didn't know she was planning to sell, or I'd have bought it myself. They took it off her hands, "without charging her a disposal fee" and then put it on the lot for $2K. It lasted two days.

But that is one dealer. I just looked at the on-line invetory of the three Chevrolet dealer nearest to me. They have the following Toyotas on their used car lots:

Bobby Murray Chevrolet - 1 Toyota Sir Walter Chevroelt - 1 Toyota Rick Hendrick Chevrolet - 2 Toyotas

Now for the three closest Ford Dealers:

Capital Ford - 9 Toyotas Crossroads Ford - Cary - 9 Toytoas Crossroads Ford - Wake Forest - 6 Toyotas

Now the three closest Toyota dealers:

Leith Toyota - 21 Fords (almost all trucks), 7 Chevrolets (all SUVs) Fred Anderson Toyota - 5 Fords (all but 1 SUVs), 4 Chevrolets (all SUVs or trucks) Mark Jacobson Toyota - 8 Fords (mostly SUVs or Vans), 4 Chevrolet (2 SUVs)

Except for Leith Toyota, I don't see a lot of difference between how many of each other's vehicles the other brands carry. Leith is a large multi-brand dealership. The Toyota store is separate, but they have a Ford dealership 14 miles away in a small town, and a Lincoln Mercury dealership just down the street. I suspect they shift vehicles to the locale they think they are more likely to sell from. Leith is also the dealership that alway promenently displays used trucks and SUVs in front of the dealership. They are also the slimiest dealership around; no matter what brand you are interested in buying. And finally, Leith has a new Tundra sitting on the back of a Ford rollback wrecker out in front of the store. Not sure what message they are trying to send with that.

I am not sure what any of this proves, since all the new car dealers I know only try to sell trade-in that they feel are desirable. If they aren't going to sell quickly they just send them off to the auction. Leith must think Ford trucks and SUVs can be sold profitably since they have quite a few on their lot.

Ed

You reminded me of a friend of mine in college. He was always taking about all of the 47 Studebakers he was seeing. I found out he lived in a small town with only two dealerships and he lived down the block from one of them, the Studebaker dealership LOL

mike

I agree 100%. After the warranty expired on the POS Toyota I owned, the repair costs were outrageous. It only takes the Toyota dealer tryig to stick you up for $500 starters and $400 alternator to convince you to never buy another Toyota. I spent more on out of warranty repiars for one Toyota than I spent on all the other cars I've owned in 38 years combined. Toyota parts are ridiculosly over priced. The biggest out of warranty cost on any of my Fords was a bad coil pack on an Expedition with 100,000 miles.

Ed

My 92 Corolla Wagon with 205,000 miles looks and runs like it was brand new.

Show me a '92 Ford, Crapsler or Chevy that looks and runs like brand new.....

There's fewer Chevy dealers every day and more Toyota dealers. That's because they sold the only bad one to Ed just to piss him off and charged him triple for maintenance and he paid it.

hmmm, did the starter myself $52 with core exchange, alterator $42 with core. it ain't rocket science and 3rd party parts on an out of warranty car aren't either. next time they quote you $500, i'll do it for half. and not snicker at you.

my 86 1/2 supra with 180k smoke a lot of the supposed hot cars out now and passes smog inspections with ease. the one fault is the door rattles whe you close it. so as soon as it annoys me, i will replace the dryed out channels and other rubber stuff. what killed me is i got it for $1500 bucks becuase the owner was real "slick". he was sure the drive line and rear end were going. so the correct size tires and a ujoint fixed the about to fail car. he offered to buy it back because he "felt bad" after i told him the real problems. "i may have been born yesterday, but it wasn't in poland and i studied all night?

-john waters

I actually fixed the starter myself for $0 because a local rebuilder gave me the part I needed. It was Toyota that wanted $500 - they only sold compete starters, no parts, and no one stocked a rebuild back then. Unfortunately nobody gave me a new A/C Condenser or Receiver Dryer, or fixed to crappola transmission for free, or repainted it when the OE paint job fell apart in less tan 3 years. You have to understand, this car wasn't just bad, it was by far the worst car I ever owned - including several British Sports Cars. Not only was it unreliable, it drove like a pick-up truck, was cramped on the inside while being relatively large on the outside, suffer efrom xcessive wind and road noise, didn't even get particularly good gas mileage, the paint literally disintegrated in less than 3 years, and the interior plastic turned milky and warped. I know that current Toyotas are much better (they could hardly be worse), but if it wasn't for my SO, I would not go within 10 miles of a Toyota dealer. However, she likes Toyotas, and since I respect her opinion, I at least considered a Tacoma when I bought my last truck. If the local Toyota dealers weren't such sleezeballs, I probably would have bought a Tacoma last year instead of the Frontier I now have.

Ed