Managed to Help A Toyota Owner

"C. E. White" ...

As I've always said; they're not perfect.

:-)

Natalie

I had the same problem with an '88 Ford E350 14' Hi-cube (351W V8), and a 1986 Chevy C10 Van (250 straight 6). They were easy to whack, as you could simply pop off the doghouse, and actually reach it from the driver's seat with a wrecking pry bar. Maybe all cars should have a trap door over the starter.

The last Toyota I junked, a 22R powered '85 pickup with 311,000 brutal miles, had the original starter, so I guess it all evens out...

I had a Lycoming starter fail to disengage the ring gear on the airplane last summer, and $1375 later, I was off! I had to pay whatever the guy at the field where it broke wanted, as airplanes are difficult to tow, and mechanics are expensive to fly in. The price turned out be comparable to what my regular mechanic would have charged. I guess we should all be glad that Ford, Chevy, Toyota, and Kubota don't get starters from the same source as Lycoming.

We've never had starter problems. Our '87 Corolla FX 16 had terrible exhaust (a well-known Toyota problem at the time), but our current 2000 Echo and 2005 Scion seem to be quite superior in that regard.

You're talking to a woman with a profound flying phobia, so that story just gave me a start! (no sedative, no flying for me!)

But regarding the cost - which is better, the chunk of cash, or dead you?

:-)

Natalie

I've had 4 Toyotas. Never a starter problem on any of them. The 2001 Avalon sucked for other reasons though.

I would have been fine, the starter motor just would have completely burned up during the flight.

Oddly enough, starters that get stuck engaged are common enough for some planes to have a "starter engaged" warning light. The only other symptom, besides the billowing smoke that comes later, is a faint gear whine which is barely audible over the engine. Fortunately, I have a good noise reducing headset, so I could actually hear the abnormal sound. The ring gear is on the front of the engine, on the back of the prop hub, so the whole mechanism gets exposed to lots of high speed weather, making things crusty at times.

The starter is usually just underneath one of the cowl intake holes, and the alternator is under the other. You're supposed to look in the holes during the pre-flight inspection and check the alternator belt tension with your fingers. The ring gear is on the front of the engine, on the back of the prop hub, so the whole mechanism gets exposed to lots of high speed weather, making things crusty at times.

"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" ... "Wickeddoll®"

O_o

SMOKE?! Gawd.

That's it. I'm taking the train to Europe.

Natalie

Just like YOUR politics sucks for MANY reasons.

This disturbs me (I have an 03 Avalon) and have to wonder what was wrong with your 2001? In my case , the Avalon is the best car (by far) that I've owned.

"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)"

Wasn't it possible to disengage the starter by rocking the engine by the prop? Was it basically the spring that retracts the gear from the start position which broke? I guess the reason for the high cost is that the part has the term "aero" in front of it, just as any parts for a boat, with "marine" in the name of them automatically cost about four or five times what they should otherwise. (and now we can add the term "medical" to some simple device and it increases the cost astronomically!)

If the lights come on bright and don't dim when the key is turned, but you get the loud click from the solenoid, there is a problem getting power to the starter motor. Usual cause below.

Bada-Bing, that's proof - it was the starter solenoid. And I'll bet if you asked, it was starting to not start the first few tries, then it would go on the third or fourth try. (And they can do that for a year or two.) A $5 set of copper power switching contacts inside the solenoid, and it's all better.

The entire solenoid assembly new is expensive, the power contacts are not. And any good starter shop can swap the contacts out, freshen up the starter motor (clean and lube, check bearings/bushings, new brushes) and solve the problem for another 10 years.

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Relax, Ms. Nervous Norvus. The airplane has enough backup systems on the backup systems... They have a cutoff switch on the starter, and the magnetos don't need battery power to keep the engine running.

Yes, smoke. I've explained "Magic Smoke" before - once it escapes, the bad stuff usually stops happening... And planes are running open headers or very rudimentary mufflers, so they run noisy as hell on purpose - no muffler to clog and cause an engine failure. It's hard to hear the starter over that.

As God once told Moses: "How long can you tread water?" ;-)

They don't run trains that direction, and cruise ships are a slow and expensive way to get across. (They aren't running regularly scheduled liners as cheap transit anymore...)

Small planes are just as safe as big planes, the important thing is that the pilots, mechanics and other support personnel are competent and well trained, and the equipment is kept up to snuff. So the probability of bad stuff happening is low, and if "Stuff" does happen they can handle it.

(They spend a lot of time in flight simulators having emergency situations thrown at them, so the reactions are automatic.)

What worries me is a weekend pilot that only flies twice a year (just barely enough to keep his license current) in a plane rented from a low-budget outfit where they only do the minimum needed work to meet the regs - even though the last two pilots have reported a funny noise that should have been checked out but wasn't...

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It was a rattle box. Dashboard installed crooked. Brake pedal used to drop about an inch sometimes as the engine slowed down as you rolled to a stop. That would wake people up big time. You could feel the car lengthen as you hit the gas and shorten as you hit the brake. A bunch were recalled because the subframe was inadequately welded. I'm sure mine was defective but it was not in the recall list. That is just a start. One of the worse cars I ever owned. My fourth and last Toyota. I friend with a 2000 felt the same. Maybe they fixed the problems by 2003.

Sure, but it restuck upon the next start. There were no volunteers available to get between the cowl and the prop to free the starter once the engine was running, or for hand propping.

No argument there. Low demand, and the FAA parts approval process certainly don't help. De-certifying the aircraft to experimental status kills the resale value, but can save a bunch on parts. Oddly enough, I've never paid less than the going labor rate at an aircraft repair shop to an automotive shop.

Well, this IS a Toyota newsgroup and since you are no longer an owner of a Toyota product, Art, why don't you just haul your sorry ass and your LIEbrawl bullshit politics and FOAD outta here! Now.

Please don't feed the trolls. Art complained mostly about petty fit and finish issues on his Avalon, including a crooked dashboard. But he had no problem with being stranded a few times by his Crapsler.

I have heard from others that the Avalon wasn't exactly Toyota's proudest moment.

Art will leave just as soon as you dry up and blow away. Try doing just that and see .......

They must have, because my car is totally rattle free at 50K miles, the body is rigid and feels as tight as a tank, and driving it makes you feel bulletproof. Driveability is the best of any car I've driven, the ride is superb, and gas mileage is surprisingly good (on the road, not necessarily around town.). Since I bought it as an ex-rental at 28K, all I've done is replace the front tires, flush the transmission, and add gas and change oil and filter. No problems of any kind. (oh, one - somehow two cd's got jammed in the playing surface and neither would eject, so I had to remove the radio and pull them out by hand, and it works fine again.) Sorry you had such bad luck with yours.

"Sean Elkins"...

I've heard that about the early Avalons as well. And they were really homely, too.

Natalie