New 07 Camry first oil change

The film strength of Mobil 1 is virtually identical the film strength of mineral oil, so I doubt if it was film strength issue. The higher grade synthetics have very high film strengths, but that probably wouldn't have helped in your case.

I think your problem was not the film strength it was difference in viscosity, the identical 50 rating notwithstanding.

Synthetic oils withstand higher temperatures before breaking down, and have more base stock and less viscosity modifiers. Synthetics wear out, become acidic, and eventually become saturated with suspended soot particles, just like regular oil.

Synthetic oil was originally developed for high performance racing engines. Mobil tried to popularize synthetic oil for passenger vehicles back in the early 1970's. At the time, Mobil was promoting 20K or 25K oil changes with synthetic, but they soon backed down from this. Synthetic oil is a good choice if you have a vehicle with a high performance engine (in fact synthetic is required for many of these engines). It is also a good choice if your vehicle is operated in extremely cold climates. It has higher resistance to breakdown caused by heat and it flows better in extreme cold.

Unfortunately for the synthetic oil industry there is virtually no advantage to using synthetic oil in a non-high performance engine that is operated in moderate climates. Synthetic may give you the peace of mind of knowing that you are using an oil that is better than necessary for your vehicle, but it won't reduce wear or extend the life of the engine. The mistake some people make it to wrongly extrapolate these benefits onto normal engines operated in mild climates, with the ultimate lack of any knowledge being manifested with statements such as "synthetics provide 'Peace of Mind,' or 'Cheap Insurance,'" or other such nonsense.

Reply to
SMS
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It is true that synthetic oil works best with modern engines built to close tolerances, like a Toyota. It probably not appropriate for an "old V8" Ford engine.

Reply to
James

Independent test results? Please post them and provide evidence that they were conducted by an independent organization.

Reply to
James

How eloquent!

No, synthetics are only _necessary_ for the high performance engines. It won't hurt a non-high performance engine to use a low grade synthetic like Mobil 1, it just won't provide any benefit over mineral oil (except in extremely cold climates). It's a waste of money, but if provides you with peace of mind, go for it.

The synthetics used by race cars are vastly different than the synthetics marketed for use in normal vehicles. Some of the additives used in the synthetics for race cars cannot be used in synthetics for vehicles with catalytic converters.

Reply to
SMS

Again, you are full of crap. The oil is not vastly different, and in many cases Mobil 1 is used straight out of the bottle.

Reply to
James

I've used synthetic in my 99 Camry since the 24,000 kilometre change. Even at minus 35 the engine starts as quickly as at room temp. Ordinary oil is like molasses at minus 35, even 5-30 is thick enough when that cold to create a drag on the starter and, much more important, to take a longer time to circulate throughout the engine.

Reply to
sharx35

Go to "

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" and you can see their racing oils. Go to "
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" and you can see their street engine oils. Go to "
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" and you can see one of their racing oils, though they don't sell it to consumers anymore, according to their web site.

Research before you post.

Reply to
SMS

Yes, as stated, extremely cold climates are where synthetic oils make a difference in normal engines, because of how well they flow at sub-zero temperatures. In warm climates there is no benefit.

The marketing implicature used by companies like Amsoil and Exxon-Mobil, to confuse naive consumers, should be illegal. But the actual market for customers that receive any benefit from their products is so small, that they have to expand the market by misleading people.

Reply to
SMS

"

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" > and you can see one of their racing oils, though they don't sell it to > consumers anymore, according to their web site.>

Mobil does not need to have a special racing oil, since they have introduced new consumer oils that are now used for racing:

Mobil 1 0W-40 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50.

Please read before you post.

The vast majority of race cars use Mobil 1.

Reply to
James

You are so full of crap that it is amazing. A full synthetic oil will prevent sludge in almost all cases, and minimize engine wear to almost imperceptible levels. It will also increase fuel economy over the same weight of conventional oil.

Reply to
James

Apparently you are one of those that has been misled into the benefits of synthetic oil. You even have to lie about the products offered by Exxon-Mobil in order to justify it. That you believe, or claim to believe, that race cars use the same oil as normal cars, is further evidence, though I don't think you actually believe that.

Google: "Synthetic oil peace of mind". Even Exxon-Mobil is now using "Peace of Mind" in their marketing.

"They can have peace of mind knowing the guaranteed performance and protection intervals of the Mobil line of high-endurance motor oils. Mobil Clean 5000, Mobil High Mileage, Mobil Clean 7500 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance protect critical engine parts from lubricant-related failure for 5,000/7,500/15,000 miles -- guaranteed."

Uh, as will any API Certified oil. Interesting that they didn't include the regular Mobil 1 oil in that list...I guess it doesn't give peace of mind, LOL.

Reply to
SMS

Like sex, do it when you want to. But to dispute Tom and Ray, there are lots of auto manufacturers and lubricating oil sites that have gone back to the

3000 mile oil change recommendation, EVEN when you use synthetics.
Reply to
<HLS

Which auto manufacturers have gone back to 3000? The actual manufacturer, not a service department trying to sell more service.

Of course some companies selling oil, or oil changes are still trying to hang on to 3000 miles, since they can double their business if enough customers are naive enough to believe them.

Reply to
SMS

Apparently recreational oil changing is a very common activity.

Reply to
SMS

Manufacturers have to strike a delicate balance between what is best for the car and what provides the lowest maintenance cost to the consumer. Automobile sales is very competitive, and if a competing brand "requires" more frequent oil changes that the one they sell, every salesman will point that out to potential buyers. There is always pressure on the marketing department of every manufacturer to recommend a longer oil change interval.

Reply to
James

Most race cars now use the same oil as consumers can buy, and most of the time it is Mobil 1. Some race cars may add zinc and phosphorus to the oil, but as you say it damages the catalytic converter on regular cars. You previously said this makes the oils vastly different. Wrong, it is only a minor difference for regular cars..

Many race cars have flat tappet cams that operate on partial oil films at least part of the time. Lubricants with anti-wear additives such as zinc and phosphorus are necessary if rapid wear and surface distress are to be avoided. Regular cars operate at much lower RPMs than race cars, so the zinc and phosphorus are not needed, and it would make very little difference it passenger cars had the zinc and phosphorus.

In any case, the EPA has lowered the amount of zinc and phosphorus that can be in oil for a regular vehicle, so none of the super-duper expensive oils you recommend can have it either.

Reply to
James

Again, please do your research before you post.

Any API Certified Oil with the Starburst symbol, is approved for use with regular vehicles.

A few years back, Amsoil was making all sorts of excuses as to why they didn't have API certification, until an employee let it slip as to the real reason:

"Actually it's the amount of phosphorus that is regulated-- but that is directly related to the amount of zinc that can be used as they are combined as zinc dithio phosphate (ZDP). This is only regulated in 2 viscosity grades, 5W30 and 10W30. Other than the Series 7500, AMSOIL lubes all contain more ZDP than can be used in an API licensed oil."

All of the synthetic manufacturers offer oil that is API certified. Most of them also offer non-API certified oil with the higher level of ZDP, for use in racing engines, and in specialty vehicles that don't have a catalytic converter.

Mobil makes many different synthetics, the ones sold to consumers are Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance.

Here's a press release that will clear up your confusion:

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"ExxonMobil Introduces New Mobil 1 Racing Oil for High-Performance Engines; Fully Synthetic Motor Oil Used by Professional Racing Teams Now Available to Car Enthusiasts

FAIRFAX, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 4, 2003--High-performance automotive enthusiasts will soon be able to get the same boost and protection that professional race car drivers get thanks to the introduction by ExxonMobil of its new proprietary racing oil -- Mobil 1(R) Racing 0W-30. The new formulation will be available to the public in early Spring 2004.

Previously available only to professional racing teams, the Mobil 1 Racing formula combines the best of Mobil 1's patented SuperSyn(TM) technology with boosted levels of anti-wear additives, giving maximum protection and minimizing internal friction for exceptional power output. The specially designed high-performance motor oil is recommended for professional and amateur horsepower enthusiasts because it provides the performance drivers want from their high-powered engines every time they get behind the wheel.

"We developed Mobil 1 Racing for people who live to drive high-performance cars," said Tom Olszewski, technical services advisor at ExxonMobil Lubricants & Specialties. "Whether they put Mobil 1 Racing in their Honda Civic or Grand Prix GTP supercharged engine, drivers are going to notice a difference in how long their engine lasts and how well it performs under extreme driving conditions."

Professional racers have been enjoying the benefits of Mobil 1 Racing for years and right now 74 percent of NASCAR drivers use Mobil 1 technology. Uniquely engineered to help deliver maximum horsepower in all engine types, Mobil 1 Racing minimizes engine drag and friction while delivering exceptional high-temperature protection.

Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 also incorporates anti-wear technology to help protect supercharged, turbocharged and high-revving engines with outstanding shear stability and a robust additive package to extend engine life. Compared to conventional racing oils and higher-viscosity synthetic motor oils, Mobil 1 Racing provides faster flow to critical engine parts to provide the ultimate in performance.

Additional information about Mobil 1 and other ExxonMobil lubricants can be found at

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Mobil 1, SuperSyn and ExxonMobil are trademarks of Exxon Mobil Corporation or one of its subsidiaries."

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Apology accepted.

Reply to
SMS

I don't need any research. I was assuming that the super-duper oils you were recommending where API certified and that they would not void the warranty on the brand new 07 Camry (since the large amounts of zinc and phosphorus would damage the catalytic converter). If not, then you are an idiot (by maybe you are anyway).

Reply to
James

Chrysler, for one. I just replaced a 3.5 litre 24 valve engine for a young lady, whose freaking children burned up her engine. The book recommendations for that engine, that I found, are 3000 miles.

Lots of others have followed suit.

Major oil companies also echo this recommendation. Look the up for yourself.

A person is very very very stupid to ruin and engine because of skimping on oil changes.

Reply to
<HLS

I looked at the Chrysler maintenance schedules, and none of them recommend 3000 miles for non-severe service.

Please list them. No one believes you.

Duh.

I agree. But a person is equally stupid to do far more oil changes than necessary. By your logic, someone should change their oil every 1000 miles, after all it couldn't hurt.

The smart thing to do is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. But don't automatically lump everyone into the severe service category either.

Reply to
SMS

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