Question on changing transmission fluid

isolated from each other for a 1995 (and also for 1994) Camry with an 4 cyl and automatic transmission

isolated from each other for a 1995 (and also for 1994) Camry with an 4 cyl and automatic transmission

Some 4's do have a common resevoir.

On my 96 Camry 2.2 the transmission and differential have SEPARATE reservoirs. According to the Haynes manual all 94 and 95 also have separate reservoirs.

Ken Day

Thanks.

Just had my trans and diff fluid changed. Diff fluid still looked new, trans fluid was dirty. Mech said the diff does not get as dirty as the trans, its possible to let the diff go to every other trans fluid change.

Short answer: yes. First time I drained the differential fluid it looked like chocolate milk. I suspect that even with the prior Owner's receipt showing labor and material charges for differential fluid change, it didn't get done. I put Mobil 1 synthetic ATF in there and actually noticed an improvement in power. Since then I've changed it a couple of times more and it always came out looking exactly the same as it went in. The transmission has friction clutches that can leave wear particles in the fluid, where the differential has only gears with a magnetic drain plug to capture any steel wear particles. With the fully synthetic fluid I'm wondering if I ever need to change that fluid again, but probably will anyway. Just wondering yesterday whether I should go to 60,000 mile intervals instead of 30,000 - as I've said, last time I drained it, looked like I could have put the "old" fluid right back in the bottle - but that's with the fully synthetic fluid, with conventional fluid I would definitely change it regularly. Frankly, I still don't understand how the differential in a rear wheel drive vehicle requires 80 or 90W gear oil - really thick viscous gear lube, whereas the differential in my Camry takes transmission fluid which pours out like water. To belabor an obscure point further, I initially tried adding Lucas oil treatment to the synthetic differential fluid. I liked the results in the engine oil, transmission fluid and power steering fluid (all synthetic Mobil 1 plus appropriate Lucas product). In the engine, it stopped the puff of smoke from over night valve seal leak down on cold start, in the transmission, it quieted the unit, in the power steering, it improved response to severe motion at low speed, but in the differential, all it did was decrease power, so I wound up reducing the concentration to 5% - which probably has very little effect. My best guess, is that Toyota sets the clearances sufficiently tight in the differential to permit use of ATF. Still runs against common sense to me - gear set driving the full weight of the car through the axles running in a non pressurized oil bath of very light viscosity fluid, but clearly those differential gears last for hundreds of thousands of miles with standard ATF changed occasionally.

You may want to take a look at this test of Lucas additives before dumping anymore into your motor or anything...

'll never use that stuff. Pennzoil High mileage cures that puff ofsmoke safely BTW. I switched to it at 60,000 miles in my 97 camry 4cyl. Its at 198,000 miles now with no startup smoke and no oil leaks.Changed every 4000 or less and I use a Purolator oil filter.

The shop I frequent doesn't charge extra for the differential drain/refill when I go in for a tranny service.

There's a very good reason Daniel/ Rear wheel drive cars have to convert a tailshaft rotation through 90 degrees to drive the axles. Camrys dont. They just have an extra sets of gears (pinion and crownwheel with spider-gears) running in parallel to the gearbox with a slight straight angle for quietness..

Once you employ helical cut gearset, which is the pinion and crown-wheel, the teeth engagement is not instantaneous as each angled tooth engages its mate on the crownwheel. There is a sliding action occuring which requires a majorally strong oil-film to stop this sliding action, under immense torque, from breaking thru to metal on metal contact. And that is the knub of it ie they only use EP 90 etc. which means Extreme Pressure grade 90 for a very good reason,..otherwise why use such a heavy oil?

If you pick up diff centre from a bango case diff (not a Salisbury type) and study how the teeth mesh as you slowly turn the pinion,..you'll see what I mean.

So why dont they simply use a bevel gear set,.like you see on a hand-drill? These do engage all the way along the tooth instantaneously,..answer: because they are too noisy,..hence the hypoid drive with helical teeth. The hypoid bit is in ref to the offset pinion which is on the bottom of the crown wheel so they can have room to install the hemispehere and spider gears. The hypoid function also dictates the need for teeth which are not straight as well. They are a slight ' S' shape.

If you see a diff which has run low on oil, you'll notice the resultant scuffing mark damage is longitudinal on the teeth faces,...due the sliding engagement.

Jason

Seems everyone's got their preferences. I will never use Pennzoil. Yes, I saw the "bob the oil guy" Lucas "test" when it first came out. Seems clear to me, he spun the gears on his little drill motor too rapidly.

1) I have never seen any evidence of cavitation in actual use. 2) I'm not using 100% concentration.

Daniel Jun 10, 1:47 pm show options

Newsgroups: alt.autos.toyota.camry From: "Daniel" - Find messages by this author

Date: 10 Jun 2005 10:47:31 -0700 Local: Fri,Jun 10 2005 1:47 pm Subject: Re: Question on changing transmission fluid Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse

Seems everyone's got their preferences. I will never use Pennzoil. Yes, I saw the "bob the oil guy" Lucas "test" when it first came out. Seems clear to me, he spun the gears on his little drill motor too rapidly.

1) I have never seen any evidence of cavitation in actual use. How would you know?

2) I'm not using 100% concentration. Neither did he.

To each his own but so far with Pennzoil and purolators I have racked up this kind of mileage:

1. 1987 Honda Civic 165,000 miles.
2. 1990 Toyota Camry v6 160,000 miles.
3. 1997 Toyota Camry 4 198,000 miles. Total of 523,000 miles, how bout you?

I bought some of that Lucas oil stuff...Hmm same thing I use in my chainsaw bar lube.. very sticky oil. Good for bike chains too. That toyota oil pump is spinning that oil up real nicely to keep the pressure up BTW.

I am with you, nothing wrong with Pennzoil ... 305,000 miles on our 88 Camry (sold to brother-in-law) ... he is still using Pennzoil and it is still running great.

1) I have never seen any evidence of cavitation in actual use. How would you know?

----------------------- Drive the car for 200 miles, much of it on the freeway at 80 mph or better, come home and immediately drain the hot engine and transmission oil. No bubbles - not one. Nor have I observed any on the dipsticks - engine hot.

---------------- I probably wouldn't mind using Pennzoil on my chainsaw - for that I use whatever old bottle of oil is around.

---------------- I suppose my high mileage vehicle is the 1977 Toyota pick up truck. Odometer flips over at 100,000, and I'm not keeping track but I know it has at least 300,000 on that single vehicle now. Although with that I use Valvoline 20W50 and el cheapo filters installed by the quick lube place.

---------------- If you change the oil regularly - that's far more important than the brand name of the oil. Driving gently helps, too. I always drive gently as traffic permits as the engine and transmission warm up, but once fully up to operating temperature, I've had the Camry at redline in the first three gears (auto trans. upshift at full throttle actually just before redline), and have had that little truck up over 90 so I don't worry about the oil. I think the most stressful action on the oil is when pressing the Camry throttle to the floor to move around traffic at around 50 mph such that the engine downshifts to second gear and engine speed instantly kicks up over 5,000 rpm - and then moves higher. Also - stupid thing on my individual engine only - prior owner had it serviced somewhere that left the intake air temperature sensor out - hidden along the top of a frame rail under the brake booster for apx.

15k miles before I found it. My stupidity with a new (to me) vehicle, I thought that was a grommet on the side of the air box, when actually it was a small hole admitting unfiltered air into the engine. I know for sure the Lucas stopped that puff of smoke on cold start entirely. I look at it this way: if Lucas is 50W and the oil capacity on the 2.2 L is 3.8 quarts, and I'm mixing .75 quarts (20%) with 10W30 Mobil 1 (which if anything is slightly thinner than conventional oil), then the calculation for the weighted average viscosity would be this: 3.8 qts. minus .75 qts. leaves 3.05 qts times 30 equals 91.50 .75 qts. times 50 equals 37.50 91.50 plus 37.50 equals 129 129 (weighted average total viscosity) divided by 3.8 qts. capacity equals 33.95. So I'm running 34 weight oil (warm) instead of 30, but have the benefit of no valve seal seepage over night. The Mobil 1 has the benefit of exceedingly high film strength compared to conventional oil, plus far less viscosity breakdown, and much improved heat resistance. Works for me. I'm not about to change. You're not about to change. We're both happy. Sounds good to me.

Once you employ helical cut gearset, which is the pinion and crown-wheel, the teeth engagement is not instantaneous as each angled tooth engages its mate on the crownwheel. There is a sliding action occuring which requires a majorally strong oil-film

------------ Meant to say "thanks" for the explanation. Since the Toyota FWD transaxle uses a differential essentially with only the spider gears to the half shaft axles - no ring and pinion, I suppose the stress on those gears is really no different that that on the planetary gearset inside the transmission.

Thats right. I had an Austin 1800 once which was an over-sized Mini with an

1800cc motor with a larger transaxle. Minis and 1800s have their T/axle sitting under neath their engine not in-line as with Camrys etc. They used the engine's oil to lubricate the T/axle!! One oil-change did the whole thing at once: engine, g-box and final drive (diff).

Jason

>

Jason, Many motorcycles are set up the same way. I liked that feature on the ones I've owned that were that way, oil got changed on all three on a regular basis with just one drain plug and fill port. davidj92

Fair enough,..I wasn;t aware of that.

Jason