Re: More on Top Tier gasoline

>Usually I get 24 miles to the gallon for stop-and-go city >driving with the '06 Camry LE, but this last tankful I got >28 city. I really babied the accelerator pedal this time >and, of course, have plenty of air in the tires. I had >Shell V-Power premium in the tank this time (for its >exceptional detergent levels), but usually I just put in >a regular grade. > >I had Hy-Vee Grocery Store premium in there two tankfuls >back, and thought the car was idling kinda rough sometimes >while stopped, so I thought some Shell V-Power was in >order to help clean out any minute amounts of potential >gunk I might have gotten from the Hy-Vee gas. > >When I asked him, the Hy-Vee manager said his gas met >the Top Tier standard, but Hy-Vee is not on the list >of Top Tier stations at toptiergas.com, so I doubt >Hy-Vee is Top Tier. > >On Hy-Vee, the car once idled at only 600 rpm; I've never >seen it idle so low. Usually 650 to 700 is the lowest it'll >idle at. It could have been a coincidence that the one 600 >idle happened under Hy-Vee. > >Quoting the Break Time page at the MFA Oil web site: > >"TOP TIER Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced >detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards >developed by four automotive companies - BMW, General Motors, >Honda and Toyota - that exceed the detergent requirements >imposed by the EPA. > >"TOP TIER Gasoline keeps engine parts cleaner by reducing >fuel-related deposits, resulting in better performance. >A lower level of detergent may cause a buildup of deposits on >critical engine parts. These deposits can cause stalling, >rough idling, lowered acceleration and other unnecessary >problems in your vehicle--and your life. > >"TOP TIER Gasoline: > >* Improves fuel efficiency >* Prevents driving upsets (rough idle, hesitation, stalling > and surge) >* Improves acceleration >* Provides more power >* Reduces emissions >* Cleans dirty engines and keeps new engines clean > >MFA Oil Company is proud to join industry leaders by requiring >TOP TIER Gasoline with higher levels of detergent in all grades >and every gallon of gasoline at Break Time Convenience Stores. > >Link:
formatting link

Two tanks of the non-brand gas and you already have problems ? I think it's all in your head. hy-vee is not a gasoline manufacturer. They buy their gas from one of the big names. There is nothing wrong with the gas, the only difference could be in detergents. Results will only show up after many many miles, if ever. Buying higher grade gas than what the manufacturer of your car specified is a waste of money. If you really want to feel better , add a bottle of techron or seafoam to your tank every 6 months and buy the cheap stuff. The only gas I don't buy is from small gas stations that don't sell a lot of gas. They might have old gas and cut corners when changing filters in their pumps.

Reply to
RT
Loading thread data ...

Define "grade".

Gasolines with good additive packages that include good detergents to keep the fuel and combustion systems free of crap--now, those are good grades of gasoline.

Funny thing--the manufacturer of your car doesn't specify what GRADE of gasoline you should use.

I think you mean "octane" instead of "grade". Octane is not a measure of "goodness". It's a measure of the fuel's ability to resist knock and preignition. It's a property of the fuel--like color, it doesn't make the fuel inherently "better" or "worse". It's just a property.

You've bought into the fuel company "premium" hype.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

yeah yeah, I meant Octane.

Reply to
RT

Grade is a term used by the petroleum refining industry to classify types of gasoline. Basically gasoline is pumped into pipelines for distribution, The grading system is a way to determine the value of the product so that exchanges and sales can be made. Octane is the main criteria for determining each grade.

Most people agree that if you go below the octane requirements for a given engine that your mileage will go down and if you purchase gasoline that goes above the octane requirements you won't get any benefit. That seems like a pretty simple proposition but in reality it is a whole lot more complicated. It's complicated by the fact that you really can't be sure what the exact octane requirements are with out careful real world testing. =

I suppose you think there isn't any difference in quality of beef cuts or that there is no such thing as "better" or "worse" when it comes to types of wine? =

Whether high octane is "better" or "worse" depends on what you are interested in. Octane certainly is the single most important property with respect to fuel economy. The reason the price is higher and people pay more for premium is because A) It costs more to produce B) In some vehicles it is cheaper to run using premium. C) regular may cause damage to some vehicles. (note: I'm not saying B) applies to every person who purchases premium and C) doesn't apply to very many modern engines)

Here is a list what J.H.Gary's "Petroleum Refining Handbook" says about the impact of octane on gasoline engines. The assumption here is if everything else would be kept constant this is how these factors affect a typical engine's octane requirements:

Combustion chamber deposits 0-12 RON =

Altitude (air pressure) 3 RON for every 1000 ft. Spark timing 3 RON for every 2 degrees Engine speed 1 RON per 300 RPM Engine Temperature 1 RON per 10=B0F =

Intake air temp 1 RON per 20=B0F Humidity 1 RON per 20%RH

He doesn't say anything about spark plug voltage and gap, EGR concentration, and Air/Fuel ratio, or engine load which also are all known factors that alter the engines octane requirements. =

Engine management and it's sensors are designed to deal with a good many of these factors so for instance timing is used to offset many of the other factors. But sensors that measure these factors aren't perfectly accurate or reliable. Just add up the possible normal deviations and it is easy to see even in engines that are working 100% as designed it is possible to deviate from the norm by more that 2 octane points. And what about the millions of cars that aren't operating 100% as designed?

In isolation anyone of these factors is pretty simple to understand, but when you combine everything together it becomes very complex interactive system. Anyone (including the car's manufacturer) who tells you they can predict with certainty what the effect of purchasing higher octane fuel will have on any particular car's fuel economy at any particular time or place is talking thru their hat. There are just too many different factors beyond the scope of their knowledge for such a statement to be anything but a guess. =

-jim

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----

formatting link
The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Reply to
jim

You would be mistaken, just as you're mistaken when you compare cuts of beef to gasoline.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

yeah. Gee, you're right. Honda's engineers are pretty much stupid, and don't know anything.

Sure. Uh-huh.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

No. If you had ask I would respond that Honda's engineers are among the best. But as far as I know all that they say about mileage estimates on their vehicles is something to this affect: "Your actual mileage may vary". It would be pretty pointless for the engineers to enter into a technical dialog with customers about the numerous factors that contribute to the wide range of mileage that their customers get from the same make and model vehicle. I mean look at your response - it appears the only thing technical that you were able to grasp and respond to was the analogy I made between grades of beef and grades of gasoline.

-jim

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----

formatting link
The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Reply to
jim

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.