Runaway 2009 Lexus ES fiery crash kills family of 4

So watch those mats!

"Toyota said Tuesday it will order all dealers to inspect their cars for mismatched floor mats after a mat was suspected of snagging a gas pedal on a runaway Lexus, ending with a fiery crash that killed four family members in San Diego County.

Toyota Motor Sales, USA Inc. planned to issue an order Wednesday to about 1,400 Toyota and Lexus dealers nationwide to make sure each of their new, used and loaner vehicles had the proper floor mats and that the mats were properly secured, said Brian Lyons, a spokesman for the Torrance-based company.

Customers who are concerned should also make sure they have the proper mats.

"If there's any doubt in their mind about the security and shape of their mat, go ahead and visit the dealer" to have them checked, Lyons said.

California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, 45, and three others were killed Aug. 28 on State Route 125 in Santee, a town near San Diego. The runaway car was doing more than 120 mph when it hit a sport utility vehicle, launched off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames.

The SUV driver was treated for moderate injuries.

In addition to Saylor, who was a 19-year CHP veteran, the crash killed his wife, Cleofe, 45; their daughter, Mahala, 13; and Saylor's brother- in-law, Chris Lastrella, 38.

Lastrella made a 911 call about a minute before the crash to say the vehicle had no brakes and the accelerator was stuck.

The call ends with someone telling people in the car to hold on and pray, followed by a woman's scream.

The family was in a 2009 Lexus ES 350 that was loaned by a dealer while their own vehicle was being serviced.

Investigators with National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have determined that a rubber all-weather floor mat found in the wreckage was a couple of inches longer than the mat that belonged in the vehicle.

That could have snared or covered the accelerator pedal.

"We don't know if the all-weather floor mat was properly secured or not," he said. "We do know that it was a floor mat from a different Lexus."

Lyons said most Toyotas come with carpeted floor mats, but all-weather mats are sold as accessories.

The driver could have put the car in neutral to disengage the engine from the automatic transmission, Lyons said.

The driver also could have turned off the electronically keyed car by holding down the start switch for three seconds, but that could have locked the steering wheel, turned off the headlights and cut power- assist to the brakes, Lyons said.

Lyons said the company had not had any complaints about mismatched floor mats.

In 2007, the company did recall all-weather mats from some of its Lexus ES 350s and Toyota Camrys after complaints that they could slip and trap the accelerator.

However, this crash was unrelated to the mats that were pulled from the market during the recall, Lyons said. "

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Reply to
john
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Both of our Toyotas came with special floor mats that attach to the floor with hooks, to keep the mats from creeping upward and bunching up around the brake and accelerator pedals. I suspect the Lexuses have similar mat hold-downs.

I put some aftermarket protector mats in both cars (Walmart, but nice looking) and find that one of the sets works fine, doesnt creep, but the other does creep up and is a potential cause of problems.

Word to the wise is to deal with this before you have a problem

Reply to
hls

I'm no Toyota fanatic but that story sounds fishy to me.

I the first place what Toyota can reach 120 MPH, except while going down a mountain?

In the second place EVERY vehicle has more brake HP than engine HP. If you doubt that floor the throttle on YOUR vehicle and apply the foot brake with you left foot and take note of what happens. ;)

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Reply to
Mike

I think you have an errant view on what brake horsepower is:

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Plus, plenty of Toyotas have top speeds rated above 120MPh, but the Lexus ES quoted in the article can do north of 140MPh.

a
Reply to
a

Here is a serious problem, if true.

The car should not lock the steering until after Park is selected. If a car starts to go out of control full-throttle, it is a natural instinct (at least for me) to cut power to the engine and deal with the rest of the issues as they come up. If the Ignition has a RUN and LOCK, but no OFF (where the engine is not running, but the steering is not locked), then I see this as a very serious safety flaw.

I had my car suffer a serious engine problem many years ago and I did not have enough towing service to get it home. I set the ignition to off and the transmission ot N, and coasted for something like 7 miles down a two-lane mountain road. If my car had been a Lexus, I would not be able to do that because the steering is locked. The grade was no very steep, just enough to keep the car going. There are lots of safety issues with coasting a car for

7 miles, but hey, young and foolish is often the road to old and wise.

This story strikes me as odd though.

I have very limited experience here, but I have always thought that the brakes on a car should be able to bring a car to a stop, or at least to a more managable speed. I am also baffled by the report that the driver was a CHP officer, but that he could not control the car by selecting N. I'm sure that such an action would in all likelihood be fatal for the engine IF the gas pedal was indeed stuck, but a fatality for the machine is far better than the four fatalities of people.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

I think you're right on both counts -- The Lexus can exceed 120mph, and Brake Horsepower is not a reflection of the power of the braking system.

But, I think you miss the point, the brakes should be able to drag the car down to a managable speed so that the target one selects to finally make it stop is not so traumatic as drilling the car into a cliff, or off a cliff. If the brakes can drag the car down to 30, say, and then the ignition is cut, the resulting heavy pressure on the brake pedal will surely cause the passengers to be launched through the windshield if they are not restrained by seat belts. Certainly, the brakes will be vary hot, and might even require major service at the end of the day, but I just do not understand how a trained CHP Officer would have so much trouble with this car. Grandma might not deal with the same issues very well, but for some reason I think CHP officers are trained in high speed pursuit that ought to include high speed stopping.

There are far too many fishy "facts" to this story.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

He *was* going down a mountain. I live nearby and have driven that grade many times.. even lost a master cylinder going down it several years back... very scary... It's a steep downhill coming off a long straight highway ending into a 't' intersection, with a creek bed on the other side. I have a Highlander with a similar engine (270ish HP v6) and have done

110 down that hill with throttle left over. The ES350 has a governed top speed of 131mph.

The car strains and slows a little until the brakes overheat and fade away. I still dont know why he didnt just slip it into nuetral and let the engine scream...(or even if the car would let him..) Very sad situation...

Reply to
ben91932

I know, I just thought I'd point out the factual errors. I agree on the fishy smell. Turn the ignition back to "Acc" or whatever it's called on that car? Brake hard - pull up the emerg./parking brake?

a
Reply to
a

PS - Or as "ben91932" points out - just plonk it in neutral. Was the CHP officer driving?

Reply to
a

I dont know how fast our Avalon would go, but it has a good tranny and

268 horsepower to pull it. Speedometer indicates 160, but I have no idea how fast you could really push it.
Reply to
hls

The "key" is a button. I'm not sure how such a thing works, but the article states that holding the button for 3 seconds will shut the car off, but it could also lock the steering wheel. This is one of the many fishy parts of the story.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

I think part of the problem is these goofy new keyless ignition switches that require weird non-intuitive sequences to perform an emergency shutdown. Give me a good old fashioned key lock, on the dash please.

I suspect we will be seeing more and more reports like this as the cutesy features that designers are incorporating into new cars simply confuse people in emergency situations. I've had a throttle linkage stick on me before (actually due to a broken motor mount, which I discovered when said throttle stuck) and it was a total non-event - I simply stepped on the clutch pedal and reached down to the bottom of the dash and turned the ignition key off as I did so. There's advantages to standard control layouts and automotive designers would be well served to remember this next time they try to reinvent the wheel.

I agree that there should have been other ways to stop the car, e.g. using the brakes, shifting to neutral (and just letting the engine blow) etc. but in an emergency one is not always thinking clearly.

nate

Reply to
N8N

It sure does. My guess is that it was not the cause of the crash, more like a fanciful imagineering of an investigator. Unfortunately, these are the things that catch the imagination of folks and it probably doesn't matter much about what the real cause was anymore.

Reply to
dsi1

There is a thing called an "Ignition switch." Turn off the ignition switch and the engine stops. This will slow down the car.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

My 99 Camry 6 cyl. will go into the 130's.

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Reply to
Sharx35

Yeah, that's how people do burnouts.

Please do not take this personally, but allow me to educate you. If your accellerator sticks and you're already moving at say 65mph, you will experience severe brake fade due to heat buildup, then you've got no brakes. But, at the point where the brakes are glowing white, shifting to neutral may not be enough to save you. You have to shift to neutral before you try to stop with the brakes. Almost all cars can at least do 100mph, all lexuses can do over 115 mph.

Reply to
Frankie Pintado

There is a thing called an "Ignition switch." Turn off the ignition switch and the engine stops. This will slow down the car.

Jeff

That's the point, Jeff. There is no "ignition switch," per se. You are accustomed to getting in, putting your key into the switch and twisting it to start the car and twisting it the other way to turn the car off at the end of the trip.

The Lexus in this story has a device that is roughly equivelent to the device at the store that detects you leaving with items that you have not paid for. The car can read the device while it is in your pocket, or maybe you have to wave it near the receptor, but in any case the car knows you are there, and it startes when you press a button marked START.

You turn the car off by pressing the same START button and holding it. The article states that this can lock the steering, which at 120mph presents an entirely new set of problems.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

Shift to N and bail out after stopping. Let the damn thing self destruct.

Reply to
dbu`

Shifting to N won't slow you down much - better to go to through the lower gears. Slam it into park when you think you're slow enough...

Reply to
dsi1

Slam it into Park? That's not going to do anything, and downshifting a car running at full throttle is not going to slow down anytime soon.

Reply to
Jeff Strickland

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