synthetic oil change interval?

I have a 2002 Camry LE V6 and change the oil every 6,500 km to 8,000 km
using Mobil 1 !0W30 (in summer) and 5W30 in winter.  No issues.  With dino
(regular) oil, I changed it every 4,000 to 5,000 km.  Toyota recommends 6
month, 8,000 km oil change frequency for the 2002 Camry LE V6 and I stay
within that.

You know, my old 68 VW bug had no filter and ran hot, as it was air cooled.
The conservative estimate was 3000 miles for the oil change. Today, with a
cooler running engine, a good Puralator oil filter and top quality Mobil 1
oil, I figure 5000 miles is the sweet spot for changing the oil. This should
give me 200,000 miles plus, any less and I'm wasting time and money, any
more and I get into wear, acid buildup and sludge issues.

--
John M. Darnielle
Remove anti spam phrase from reply address to e-mail me.

When I owned my Chrysler minivan, I was using Amsoil. They recommand one
year or 25,000 miles and change the filter (6 microns which makes a
difference) at 6 months or 12,500 miles. When I had to get rid of the van
(1990 V-6 3.3) it was because of the cost of fixing the transmission and the
new paint job it needed rather than an engine issue. It ran like a charm.
Smooth, no leak, etc.
I would use it to in my 93 Camry but I am contemplating trading for a newer
model so I won't bother use anything else than Valvoline synthetic and AC
Delco filter. I'm not afraid to change at every 10,000 kms. And the car has
265,000 kms.

JP


Nobody Important wrote:

Nobody Important wrote:
|| My 99 Camry 2.2l is now out of warranty so I'm free to change the
|| oil at whatever interval seems sensible.  I'm in Canada, so I'm
|| supposed to follow the severe service interval of 5000 km/3000 mi.
|| Toyota goes out of their way (on their website) to say that one
|| should follow the dino oil schedule even if synthetic oil is used.
||
|| My friend's Volvo has a recommended (synthetic) oil change interval
|| of 12 000 km / 7500 mi .  There is also some evidence on the web (
|| http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html  ) that this
|| is a safe interval to follow from the point of view of viscosity,
|| dissolved solids etc.  (In fact, the Mobil 1 oil tested was shown to
|| be good for 29 000 km!) However, the oil filter from that study is a
|| lot bigger than the tiny one on my Camry so I think I'd want to
|| change the filter more frequently.  There is also the sludging issue
|| to consider...
||
|| I'm curious: are you using synthetic in your Camry?  If so, what oil
|| change schedule are you following?  The factory recommendation of
|| 3000 mi seems excessively conservative and wasteful given the
|| evidence that modern synthetic oil ought to be good for many times
|| that distance.

Well, I use synthetic on my 99 Camry and use a 6,000 km change interval. No
car was ever damaged from having too MANY oil changes but LOTS of engines
have been damaged from too FEW changes. The lube value of the oil lasts a
LOT longer than the ability of the oil to HOLD the dirt in suspension.
Change it already. Even syn oil is much cheaper than a new engine.

This is one of those rare and concise posts that hits ALL the salient
concerns about oil servicing.
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

Philip® wrote:

rare and concise?  I see only platitudes without supporting evidence.
Changing oil more frequently than necessary is a waste of money, time
and recycling resources.  In the special case of a brand new car, it
causes poor engine run-in.

OPtimally, people should cite studies, similar to the one I cited, or
refuting studies to try and help us decide what a reasonable synthetic
oil change interval is based on EVIDENCE.

Nobody Important wrote:

Then my young idealistic friend, you need to define what "more
freqently than necessary" means.

The rest of your post is juvenile rubbish.

--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:59:33 GMT, "Philip?"


Sorry, but it's science.  Without independent evidence all we
have is the manufactures trying to maximize their profits.  It
does no good to claim authority, no good to site personal
experience, no good to relate folk tales and no good to provide
studies funded by vested interests.  It's investigation and
studies (not just referenced, but with links to the data) using
the scientific method.  I'm 65 and a retired electrical engineer
so my position is founded on both education and experience.

Glenn

I have you by 5 yrs and with due respect, your electrical background
is not relevant to engine oil.  My background in the past 22 yrs
professionally is in automotive and truck service/repair followed by
10 yrs driving line haul OTR.
--

   *Philip

This may be a good example of what happens to people who have spent
so much time in one field that they come to think that because of
their
advanced studies in one arena, that they also havecredibility
conferred
upon them by the perceived unwashed in many other arenas.  When
these self absorbed sophisticates are questioned ... many become
condescending and arrogant.  Some might call this person a dope.

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:15:08 GMT, "Philip?"


But it's not science.  Of course my background isn't relevant to
oil, that's why my criticism was about lack of science.  I made
no attempt to answer the question about intervals.  Science, is
the only way we can determine answers to questions like that in
the subject.  Your experience is of little use.  There was no
control.  There was no documenting of data points.  There was no
statistical analysis of the data.  There was no effort to
randomize the samples.  There was no review.  It's only what you
remember and memory drops data points where science doesn't
(unless of course it's biased reporting by those motivated by
profits).

Glenn

Glenn, this is a REAL OLD subject in this and several other
automotive and truck forums.  You're a "johnny come lately."   So in
order for you to save face, I'm going to let you have the last word
on the subject of oil changing.


--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:37:45 GMT, "Philip?"


I don't want or need the last word, I want you to understand
science.  I want you to realize that your experience doesn't
qualify you to generalize about oil change intervals.  I want you
to understand that your attitude is symptomatic of the failures
of our education system which has led to so many job exports, to
an economy in shambles, to a political system of smoke and
mirrors, to religions that want to rule the world, etc.  Mostly I
want you to listen when someone argues with you and for you to
refrain from personal attacks.  In this case, you are out of line
and should apologize to Nobody Important for he is right and you
are wrong -- unequivocally.

Glenn

Glenn wrote:
|| On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:37:45 GMT, "Philip?"
||
|||
|||| On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:15:08 GMT, "Philip?"
||||
|||||
|||||| On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:59:33 GMT, "Philip?"
||||||
||||||| Nobody Important wrote:
|||||||| Philip? wrote:
|||||||||
||||||||| Well, I use synthetic on my 99 Camry and use a 6,000 km change
||||||||| interval. No car was ever damaged from having too MANY oil
||||||||| changes but LOTS of engines have been damaged from too FEW
||||||||| changes. The lube value of the oil lasts a LOT longer than the
||||||||| ability of the oil to HOLD the dirt in suspension.
|||||||||
||||||||| Change it already. Even syn oil is much cheaper than a new
|||||||||| engine.
|||||||||
|||||||||
||||||||| This is one of those rare and concise posts that hits ALL the
||||||||| salient concerns about oil servicing.
||||||||
|||||||| rare and concise?  I see only platitudes without supporting
|||||||| evidence.
|||||||| Changing oil more frequently than necessary
|||||||
||||||| Then my young idealistic friend, you need to define what "more
||||||| freqently than necessary" means.
|||||||
||||||| The rest of your post is juvenile rubbish.
||||||
|||||| Sorry, but it's science.  Without independent evidence all we
|||||| have is the manufactures trying to maximize their profits.  It
|||||| does no good to claim authority, no good to site personal
|||||| experience, no good to relate folk tales and no good to provide
|||||| studies funded by vested interests.  It's investigation and
|||||| studies (not just referenced, but with links to the data) using
|||||| the scientific method.  I'm 65 and a retired electrical engineer
|||||| so my position is founded on both education and experience.
||||||
|||||| Glenn
|||||
|||||
||||| I have you by 5 yrs and with due respect, your electrical
||||| background is not relevant to engine oil.  My background in the
||||| past 22 yrs professionally is in automotive and truck
||||| service/repair followed by 10 yrs driving line haul OTR.
||||
|||| But it's not science.  Of course my background isn't relevant to
|||| oil, that's why my criticism was about lack of science.  I made
|||| no attempt to answer the question about intervals.  Science, is
|||| the only way we can determine answers to questions like that in
|||| the subject.  Your experience is of little use.  There was no
|||| control.  There was no documenting of data points.  There was no
|||| statistical analysis of the data.  There was no effort to
|||| randomize the samples.  There was no review.  It's only what you
|||| remember and memory drops data points where science doesn't
|||| (unless of course it's biased reporting by those motivated by
|||| profits).
||||
|||| Glenn
|||
|||
||| Glenn, this is a REAL OLD subject in this and several other
||| automotive and truck forums.  You're a "johnny come lately."   So in
||| order for you to save face, I'm going to let you have the last word
||| on the subject of oil changing.
||
|| I don't want or need the last word, I want you to understand
|| science.  I want you to realize that your experience doesn't
|| qualify you to generalize about oil change intervals.  I want you
|| to understand that your attitude is symptomatic of the failures
|| of our education system which has led to so many job exports, to
|| an economy in shambles, to a political system of smoke and
|| mirrors, to religions that want to rule the world, etc.  Mostly I
|| want you to listen when someone argues with you and for you to
|| refrain from personal attacks.  In this case, you are out of line
|| and should apologize to Nobody Important for he is right and you
|| are wrong -- unequivocally.
||
|| Glenn


Up your ass, Glenn.

"Philip®" wrote:


With all due respect, being old and having driven a truck
doesn't make you an expert on engine oil either. And 22
years in the automotive truck service/repair industry, might
only mean you changed tires. I know some really good,
honest, trustworthy mechanics that I would trust to repair
my car, but when it comes to oil, they know about as much as
a sixth grader.Heck, I fix popcorn all the time, and I have
no idea why it does what it does.

Being old doesn't make you stupid, but it doesn't make you
right either. The world has changed a lot in the last 50
years. All too often the advice I see promolagted in
internet automotive groups is based on what worked for
someone's Father or Grandfather. I know I love my Dad
dearly, and he had over 50 years of experience maintaining
farm equipment, but I would not depend on his ideas on oil
as far as I can throw him. "Trust but verify" is a good idea
when it comes to things you say, or Mike says, or even what
I say.

Ed

C. E. White wrote:

Such is far from the case so your bluster falls on deaf ears.
--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

Glenn wrote:
|| On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:59:33 GMT, "Philip?"
||
||| Nobody Important wrote:
|||| Philip? wrote:
|||||
||||| Well, I use synthetic on my 99 Camry and use a 6,000 km change
||||| interval. No car was ever damaged from having too MANY oil
||||| changes but LOTS of engines have been damaged from too FEW
||||| changes. The lube value of the oil lasts a LOT longer than the
||||| ability of the oil to HOLD the dirt in suspension.
|||||
||||| Change it already. Even syn oil is much cheaper than a new
|||||| engine.
|||||
|||||
||||| This is one of those rare and concise posts that hits ALL the
||||| salient concerns about oil servicing.
||||
|||| rare and concise?  I see only platitudes without supporting
|||| evidence.
|||| Changing oil more frequently than necessary
|||
||| Then my young idealistic friend, you need to define what "more
||| freqently than necessary" means.
|||
||| The rest of your post is juvenile rubbish.
||
|| Sorry, but it's science.  Without independent evidence all we
|| have is the manufactures trying to maximize their profits.  It
|| does no good to claim authority, no good to site personal
|| experience, no good to relate folk tales and no good to provide
|| studies funded by vested interests.  It's investigation and
|| studies (not just referenced, but with links to the data) using
|| the scientific method.  I'm 65 and a retired electrical engineer
|| so my position is founded on both education and experience.
||
|| Glenn

How does ELECTRICAL engineering relate to engine lubrication?
Answer: it does NOT.

Truth with a dorsal fin wrote:


But, good engineering practices do relate across all fields.


Ed

Nobody Important wrote:
|| Philip® wrote:
|||
|||| Well, I use synthetic on my 99 Camry and use a 6,000 km change
|||
||| interval. No
|||
|||| car was ever damaged from having too MANY oil changes but LOTS of
|||
||| engines
|||
|||| have been damaged from too FEW changes. The lube value of the oil
|||
||| lasts a
|||
|||| LOT longer than the ability of the oil to HOLD the dirt in
|||
||| suspension.
|||
|||| Change it already. Even syn oil is much cheaper than a new engine.
|||
|||
|||
||| This is one of those rare and concise posts that hits ALL the
||| salient concerns about oil servicing.
||
|| rare and concise?  I see only platitudes without supporting evidence.
|| Changing oil more frequently than necessary is a waste of money, time
|| and recycling resources.  In the special case of a brand new car, it
|| causes poor engine run-in.

Following the advice of the dealer, I used regular oil until 24,000
kilometres, THEN switched to synthetic. Who ARE YOU to day how *I* should
use my time or money?


||
|| OPtimally, people should cite studies, similar to the one I cited, or
|| refuting studies to try and help us decide what a reasonable
|| synthetic oil change interval is based on EVIDENCE.

SNIP

I have followed many a discussion about oil on different newsgroups and I
must say that this subject is one of the most debated one.
Studies about oil are fine but, bear in mind that all synthetic oils aren't
created equal, as is the case with dino oil. Plus, how we all drive and in
what conditions have to be taken into consideration.
One thing is sure, yes, you can drive the distance from here to the moon on
dino oil if you drain it regularly. But synthetic oil is far superior to
dino because it reduces friction. We all know that reduced friction means
reduced wear and better fuel mileage, among all the benefits. For example,
in the winter, my car starts like in the summer time. So, my battery will
also last longer. No need to plug it. So, reduced electricity consumption. I
don't need science and studies to prove it to me. My anecdotal evidence is
enough study for me. :-)
I have always extended oil drain intervals beyond what is thought to be
reasonnable by most people and never had an oil related problem.
Car dealers make profits with oil changes and can tell us pretty much
anything they want because we will believe them. After all, aren't they the
"specialists"?
This my opinion folks. I am open to discussion. You can flame me if you want
but it would not be constructive. Don't need a "study" to prove that. (wink
wink) ;-)

Best

JP