Synthetic oil in hybrid

That is only the case if they can reasonably show that damage occurred because of lack of more frequent oil change. If a problem occurs that has nothing to do with an oil change, it has no bearing on the warranty.

Ford has owned Volvo (passenger vehicles) since about 2000.

Reply to
Mark A
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Not intending to change the thread slightly, but just wondering if any of you here have heard about the intercharger gadget. It is fitted in the crankcase vent air intake/exhaust area, not sure just exactly where. Theoretically it's suppose to cool down this air so more unburnt fuel is consumed and cleans up the oil and emissions. Incidently, I'm not selling this and no intentions of trying, just need a rebuttal for my coffee buddies.

Reply to
rhiebert

Cars already pull air through the crankcase to burn blowby gasses, which increases mpg, oil life and reduces pollution, a cold motor cant cook polutants out of oil very fast. The warmer the oil the quicker pollutants are removed from it, an important one is water, which trashes oil quickly. Drive a mile a day at -20 to -0f and oil will be junk in 2000 miles.

Reply to
ransley

I agree with you on the oil intervals on cars for the masses, like Toyotas. Oil looks bad to my taste at 4000 miles already most highway. You know the Mobil-1 5W-30 doesn't make the BMW LL01 cut, but it's

0W-40 does!

Today, better gasoline (Top Tier, toptiergas.com) and oils (such as BMW high specification LL01/04), tight engineering tolerances (bearing, ring oil clearances etc), better metallurgy (a piston doesn't expand much heating up, like the famed Mahle), fuel atomization and whole bunch of other factors you can google all day will help in reducing soot loading the oil and other oil stresses like blowby fuel dilution etc..

Extended drain intervals cars like VWs, Audis, BMW, Mercedes etc typically have larger crankcases and the oils need to be designed to work with the oil filters to reduce filter loading during the long service interval. Castrol's website describes how they work with BMW on this issue.

That's why I say don't play the extended drain game with Toyotas. Toyotas are NOT designed for extended oil drain intervals. People WILL benefit from using synthetics especially the Group IV/V, but only up to the recommended interval (quite often less than that in lesser cars). Note that in many countries Group III hydrocracked "synthetics" CANNOT be called synthetics.

US EPA has an aritcle on oil life extension, you can look at some of the factors that reduce oil life and deduce factors that will hurt oil life on the oil and engine sides.

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Reply to
johngdole

I know Asian and European cars have weird shaped gaskets (more semi- circular than flat). Flat gaskets have worked fine for me. I never had a filter gasket leak and don't know anyone who did, really.

Now more and more cars use only replacement filter media in a reusable filter housing (European mostly). These use pretty standard looking o- rings for seals. This certainly helps reduce shipping weight and also reduced used filter waste, but the boxes need to be handled with more care otherwise you crush the filter.

So I always use a synthetic blend media filter, and not the cheaper, thinner paper filters that filter down to only 20-25 microns.

Reply to
johngdole

One you drop off at the dealer, pay an arm and a leg. And they mostly "inspect" kinda maintenance is what I meant. People actually pay for coolant changes every year, but I doubt people actually got them.

I agree that synthetics are great, especially if people intend to keep their cars longer. However, today's dino oils are quite decent and most engines really aren't very advanced. More frequent oil changes also help remove contaminants. So dino every 3000 miles should be fine for these.

Reply to
johngdole

Here is the article: It's an MB 229.51 and BMW LL04 oil for both diesel and petro engines I guess in Europe for now.

Castrol Introduces a New Revolutionary Oil for the BMW Group Press Release 'Clean Performance TechnologyTM'

Castrol, strategic partner of BMW, have developed a new lubricant with `Clean Performance TechnologyTM` in close cooperation with BMW, which sets new standards in the industry. Castrol SLX LL04 0W-30 is specially engineered to keep the engine and exhaust system clean, reducing harmful emissions to the environment. SLX LL04 is developed for the new generation of BMW's with particulate filters and meets the latest specifications BMW Longlife-04. Due to its `Clean Performance TechnologyTM`, SLX LL04 reduces long term blocking of the particle filters and can be used in all BMW diesel and petrol engines (excluding M series). Castrol is the first lubricant manufacturer to bring a `Clean Performance TechnologyTM` oil onto the market.

BMW have started fitting diesel particulate filters (DPF's) to their cars. Initially the BMW 5 series will be offered with a DPF, other models such as the new 3 series will follow. These new diesel engines fitted with a DPF need an engine oil based on new lubricant technology. Together with the engine management system the DPF ensures long-term reduction of particle emissions. In order to prolong the durability of the DPF the so called 'Low SAPS' oils are required. Castrol's `Clean Performance TechnologyTM` is a totally new 'Low SAPS' formulation containing lower levels of Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur compared with conventional oils.

Castrol's 'Clean Performance TechnologyTM' is specially engineered to keep the engine and exhaust system clean, reducing harmful emissions to the environment. High levels of metal-based additives in engine oil can contribute to long term blocking of exhaust filters and increased harmful emissions. 'Clean Performance TechnologyTM', from Castrol, uses low levels of these metal-based additives to prolong the life of the exhaust system. By keeping exhaust systems clear, Castrol's 'Clean Performance TechnologyTM' provides superior power flow through the engine, maintaining vehicle performance and fuel economy.

With Castrol's revolutionary `Clean Performance TechnologyTM`, new Castrol SLX LL04 meets the requirements of the future generation of both diesel and petrol engines of the BMW Group.

Key features and benefits of Castrol SLX LL04 0W-30: Features:

  • New 'Clean Performance TechnologyTM' * Special Fully Synthetic 0W-30 Low SAPS formulation * Compatible with Diesel Particulate Filters * Long drain capability * Approved to BMW Longlife-04 (including Longlife-01)

Benefits:

  • Cleaner environment (reduced emissions of harmful particulates from the exhaust) * Helps keep exhaust system clean * Maintains engine performance and fuel economy * Prolongs durability of the exhaust system * Fast cold start properties through 0W viscosity

Castrol SLX LL04 is the first engine oil, which fulfills the new BMW Longlife-04 specification. With the `Clean Performance TechnologyTM` it has a wide range of applications from the latest diesels fitted with DPF filters to new and existing petrol engine technology. The new product offers profitable opportunities for the BMW network. Castrol will support the dealers with tailor made marketing and communication concepts to exploit this new opportunity.

Source: Text courtesy BP Lubricants

Reply to
johngdole

I was skeptical of synthetics until I tried them (Mobil 1). The oil stays cleaner longer, and the engine revs easier (noticeably less friction). With today's gas prices, the 1-2% improvement in gas mileage, and going from 3000 to 5000 mile oil change intervals, is enough savings to pay for the increased cost of full synthetic oil.

I will absolutely guarantee that a full synthetic like Mobil 1 will provide better engine protection at 5000 miles than any conventional oil after 3000 miles of use.

Reply to
Mark A

25 microns, what do factory filters do in micron filtering, I think mobil is 15 or so.
Reply to
ransley

The link below has some interesting stuff on this.

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FYI, not selling here now)

Reply to
rhiebert

All true.

You can extend intervals with any car, but you need to assitance of oil analysis to figure out how far you can go. As long as the viscosity and the TBN are OK, and there is good air filtration so excessive dirt isn't in the oil, you can continue. (the color of the oil doesn't mean anything that is reliable) And there should be a safety margin. But most people are not willing to do the work to find out. Analysis' cost money and you need to learn how to interpret the results or have an expert do that for you. Mercedes, BMW and etc. have done that work for those owners.

There is no evidence at all that using synthetics reduces wear vis a vis petrol basestocks if the oil is still servicable. (i.e. TBN and viscosity are OK and no excessive dirt contamination) Synthetics are only better at the extremes of performance, which is why doing extended intervals makes sense with them. Using synthetics simply for "lower wear" is a myth and a waste of resources and money.

Reply to
jjnunes

A myth, is better mpg a myth, no, less friction means less wear. BMW did a test years ago and found wear with synthetics was less. Its the additive package that makes a difference in the oils

Reply to
ransley

Many people are still quoting the Consumer Reports study done using NYC taxi cabs about 20 years ago. The problem with that study is that the cars were large rear wheel drive (obsolete) US designs (Ford Crown Vic or equivalent) which had very loose engine tolerances, and are nothing like engines used today (especially in Japanese cars).

On a modern Toyota engine, full synthetic will definitely incur less engine wear and increase mileage slightly. The mileage increase used to be considered negligible (about 1-2%), but these days it is probably enough (or almost enough) to pay for the increased cost of synthetic oil (especially if you also increase the oil change interval from 3000 miles to 5000 miles).

Reply to
Mark A
g

I get 1 mpg better with mobil1, it also means less wear, since there is less friction.

Reply to
ransley

That is about 4% improvement. I don't doubt it, but I usually quote the 2% figure to be more conservative in my claims.

BTW, a 4% improvement in gas mileage is about $28 in savings over 5000 miles, easily enough to pay for the difference between synthetic and conventional oil.

Reply to
Mark A

I also notice an improvement with Mobil synthetic in the trans and transfer case

Reply to
ransley

If wear metals on an analysis mean anything, it doesn't really show up on those posted on

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If BMW used before and after measurements from teardowns, then that would certainly have some validity. Synthetics provide greater protection under the extremes of performance, such as racing or some failure conditions, such as coolant leaks into the oil.

Reply to
jjnunes

It was a longterm test that found almost no wear after something like

100000 miles. Motor was measured before and after. It might be on Mobil1 site it was maybe 5 years ago
Reply to
ransley

Not quite that simple. The vast majority of engine wear occurs when the engine is first started, before it warms up. This constitutes "extreme" conditions and therefore almost every engine is subject to it (although perhaps a NYC taxi is less subject to it).

And yes, BMW tore down the engines after the test. BMW has also tested gasoline, although I have not seen any recent results (the results from about 15 years ago that I saw showed a definite difference in deposits between name brands and generic brands of gasoline).

Reply to
Mark A

Remember, the change to 5000 miles was because Toyota said that it was too confusing to owners to have a severe service interval and a normal service interval. 5000 miles is playing it _extremely_ safe. 3000 miles is considered "recreational oil changing" as there is no benefit to 3000 miles versus 5000 miles.

Just avoid non-API oils (i.e. some Amsoil products are unable to achieve API certification). No real need for synthetic in a Toyota engine with

5000 mile oil changes, as there will be no benefit in terms of engine longevity.
Reply to
SMS

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