I just test drove 4 different Camry V6s today. They all exhibit a delay of about a half-second to a second between pushing the throttle and engine response.
I was shopping to buy one. I noticed it immediately on test driving the first car. I continued trying others at different dealers to see if the first car had a malfunction. All 4 exhibited the hesitation. I happens any time I'd press down on the acceleration moderately -- not gently and not jamming it. About like you'd do when leaving a stop sign when not in a rush. It happens when accelerating from a stop or from a steady speed like when you go from a 30 mph zone into
50 mph. You push the throttle to bring you up to 50 -- not leisurely and not wide open.
I discussed this with a salesman and a sales manager at another dealer. Both were aware of this issue. The salesman said it was a safety feature so you would jump out too quickly (Uh huh, sure. The Accord doesn't have this lag -- it responds instantly. The 4 cylinder Camry responds properly too.). The sales manager said it would go away with time. Not very comforting. He offered to let me drive one with 20,000 miles on it to see for myself. I did and it had the same hesitation.
I ran across a rumor on the net that this is a problem with the V6 transmission and a recall is expected soon. I can find absolutely no confirmation of this and the sales manager says there's no truth to it.
Has this been discussed here? I can't find any mention of it in Google groups?
Guy I know almost didn't buy his '04 xle v6 cause of it. He got the same crap from the dealer. I received no help on the issue here... I wrote it off as Toyota trying to improve reliability numbers by "softening" the effects of pedal jamming. :-) His delay is much longer than .5 secs... more like 2-3 secs for the seqence. Drop out of O/D, unlock tranny, throttle up, downshift and finally some power to the wheels.. REALLY irritating trying to merge into traffic it.
Be sure to check the dashboard for rattles and clicks. You sound like a guy that might be more sensitive than the typical Toyota customer. Their cars of late tend to have bodies that rattle and dashboards that click. If you didn't like the hesitation feature you might not be happy with other issues. Drive one with a bunch of miles on it over a few bumps before you sign the deal.
Sounds like same issue the new Lexus ES330 has, but with the Lex, you get to pay more for your misery.
Don't feel too bad about the sales people lying to you; the Lexus guys do too.... but it may not be all lies since many salesmen are really stupid.
The problem is very real, and won't go away on its own. Software upgrades help the Lex, but not a complete fix.
I own both an older ES300 and Camry. They both have instant throttle responce. Granted, the new V6s go a lot faster once they get going, but the 18 wheeler may have hit you by then. Enough to make an Accord/Acura lover out of me.
It is not a transmission issue , it is a delay between the time you press the accelerator and the servo motor twists the throttle plate. I have heard this "delay" concern from customers of every manufacturer that now has Brive By Wire (DBW), the Volkswagons are the worst , the chevy colorado ranks a close second. But guys it is a function of design , it is not a problem. You may not like it but its operating as it is intended to. At the end of this post there is a complete description of how and why it works, but here are some quotes snipped from owners forums of other vehicles that are drive by wire (DBW):
From a BMW forum: The latest 3 series has drive by wire. It sucks. The reason for drive by wire is primarily emissions. If you drive one of these, you'll notice that the throttle response from idle isn't very sharp and that it's easy to stall. Also, when you lift off the throttle, the revs don't fall immediately. Emissions are poor under these conditions (especially lift throttle), so the drive by wire smooths out the quick transitions.
From A Volkswagon Enthusiast: I was psyched to test drive the new GTI VR6. Got behind the wheel and let 'er rip! Uhh . . . hello power? The DBW eases into the throttle when you floor it to reduce stress on the drivetrain. I can make my '96 GLX, without DBW, hurt all the passenger's necks with torque snap (how I love to do this! ). The new VW . . . nope...delay!!. You idiots! What were you thinking?!
Toureg owners forum: I took the Touareg off road yesterday and you're right about lack of good throttle articulation. The first 3/8" or so of travel produces nothing but delay response. Everything seems to happen in the next
3/4". The remainder of travel pretty much only effects downshifting. I think I can get used to it though. In low range, it seems to be less of an issue because a big change in engine speed doesn't cause as large a change in vehicle speed.
Heres how it works:
With the electronic throttle, the throttle valve is not operated by a cable connected to the accelerator pedal. There is no mechanical link between the accelerator pedal and the throttle valve. The throttle valve is actuated by a servomotor (throttle valve positioner) in the throttle valve control module over the full range of engine speeds and load conditions.
The throttle valve positioner actuates the throttle valve according to the commands it receives from the Engine Control Module (ECM). The position of the accelerator pedal is communicated to the Engine Control Module (ECM) by two accelerator position sensors (variable resistors, both installed in a single housing) which are connected to the accelerator pedal. The accelerator pedal position (as determined by the driver) is one of the main input values for the Engine Control Module (ECM). With the engine is not running and the ignition switched on, the ECM operates the throttle valve positioner in exact accordance with the signals from the accelerator position sensors. For example, when the accelerator pedal is pressed down half way, the throttle valve positioner opens the throttle valve by an equivalent amount, i.e. about half way. When the engine is running (i.e. under load) the ECM can open and close the throttle valve freely, independently of the signals being sent by the accelerator position sensors. For example, the throttle valve might already be fully open even though the accelerator pedal is only pressed down half way. This has the advantage of preventing throttling losses at the throttle valve.
Under certain engine load conditions there is also a significant reduction in harmful emissions and noticeably improved fuel consumption. The Engine Control Module (ECM) can provide the optimum combination of throttle valve opening and charge pressure in order to create the required torque. The electronic throttle is not simply a combination of two or three components, but rather a complete system comprising all the elements that together determine the position of the throttle valve and also control and monitor it. For example, the Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor, Throttle Valve Control Module, EPC warning lamp, Engine Control Module (ECM) etc.
Seems to me that there are 2 possibilities here. The delay may be needed to improve emissions. Or the delay could be a lag because manufacturers are using cheap computer chips and they need to use faster processors. Any idea which is the correct conclusion? Years ago I read that Intel was still making tons of 8086 CPU's and selling them to car manufacturers for a few pennies a piece. Maybe they need to be using a 386 or later processor instead.
You're missing the point. There's is a little electric motor opening the throttle valve. The little motor cannot open it as violently & quickly as you would if there was an actual physical line connecting the pedal to the valve. That causes the delay, not software. They need to reinvent the way the valve opens.
No actually you are both wrong. An electric motor can certainly open the valve as fast as a human can , probably faster, its all about emmissions. Period. It is more expensive to build DBW systems than build a throttle cable. By implementing DBW, the computer can regulate the throttle plate and lower emissions. thats all its about , period. From what I have heard from engineers it is substantial.
Brad: NOBODY gives a rats behind about EXCUSES for misapplied and ill-tempered technology. Putting up with lazy Drive By Wire is like living with someone who has all sorts of obnoxious habits simply because sex is good or they provide an opulent life style. ;-)
If that is true, then why does the throttle whip open as if cable operated when you press the throttle pedal abruptly ... but lags when the throttle is opened casually?
Calm down !!! I agree 110% I was just explaining how it operates and what is happening while not acceptable to some is normal. I drove a v6 camry on our lot this morning and felt it. To me it was noticeable but not as bad as some others I have driven. Given a choice I would chosse cable actuated. GEEZ!
If you don't want a lag for sure get the 300C. V8 power to spare. Drove the wagon version (Magnum V8 versiion) the other day. It flies. They are also flying off the dealers lot. Gas mileage respectible too because of displacement on demand that actually works. Remember GM tried it over a decade ago? This time it works. The 3.5 V6 has plenty of power too but stay away from the base 2.7 V6. It is slow and like some versions of the Toyota V6, skip an oil change with the 2.7 and you risk gelling.
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