timing belt

1997 Camry 4 cylinder LE Automatic 180K miles

Yes, the time has come for the 60K mile timing belt replacement. The last two times I had the belt replaced the Toyota dealer told me the water pump is fine and left it in. After 180K miles I am beginning to think it should be replaced also. The Toyota dealer quoted over $700 for these two procedures. To be fair they also included some other seals and rings in that area.

Apparently Toyota recommends 60K mile timing belt replacements on 1998 and below vehicles and 90K mile replacement intervals on 1999 and above vehicles. Why? Aren't the same belts and materials used between a 98 and 99?

I am seriously considering just taking it to a local garage for the work. Their quote was under $500 but I'm not sure yet if that included all the seals and rings that get replaced. If I buy the parts from the dealer it is around $275. How much inferior would the parts be that a local garage would use?

Reply to
badgolferman
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A car question in a political newsgroup? What's this world coming to? My 2 cents, Depending on the how critical the use of the car is, do you use it for doctor appointments in a far away city, are you expecting a heart attack or stroke, is it the primary vehicle,... etc. I'd go 90K and at 180K I'd be changing the water pump. If the independent garage doesn't mind I'd look on e-bay for one of those timing belt kits. Which is what I did when I changed mine. I wound up changing only the belt in my case at

93K miles on a 98 Toyota, because everything was dry inside the timing cover, oil seals were still good and water pump was OK and it wasn't that big a job. At 180K if I still have the car I'll change the seals and water pump and belt. One of the questions I'd have for any mechanic that works on it is, how do you torque the crankshaft bolt when you tighten it? It's not a hard job really but things need to be done correctly or it could leave you stranded. There are a lot of parts to worry about and a lot of things that might need attention, such as, Thermostat, all the belts, antifreeze, hoses, probably time for spark plugs, change the brake fluid and automatic transmission fluid and a dozen, maybe a hundred other things. Old cars need a lot of tender love and care. I think this is what I got, and I wound up using only the timing belt.....
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Reply to
FatterDumber& Happier Moe

I haven't had a timing belt done but a few years ago did a complete 60K service on my 02 Highlander (inc front pads). I found a factory trained independent Toyota mechanic that used ALL Toyota factory parts and he was just damned near half of what the dealer wanted, and the dealer brought the parts while I was there!

So I'd suggest looking for one.

Ron

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Reply to
ron

Timing belts on Toyotas rarely break before 90k miles, and I believe that the engine on yours is freewheeling so while a broken belt will leave you stranded, it shouldn't damage the engine.

If the water pump is original, I'd consider replacing it. Whether or not you replace the camshaft and crankshaft seals depends on what their condition is. If they appear to be dry, I'd leave them alone.

The quality of the parts that independent shops use varies widely. Some use OEM parts, some use quality aftermarket parts, and some use the cheapest stuff they can find. My preference is for OEM because you know what you are getting.

Reply to
Ray O

Good advise! Many independent specialists are both lower priced and perform higher quality work overall that you can get at a typical dealer. Of course, some don't. Look for one that has been around a long time and where the shop is always busy.

But I always wonder about the term "factory trained" for an automobile mechanic. I see this all the time, and it just doesn't make sense.

It seems to me that those who work in automobile factories just slap the same parts in the same place all day long, day in, day out, and don't have or need any particular knowledge beyond how to do that. Furthermore, what particular know how would one get from dealing with brand new cars fresh off the assembly line? What the world needs is mechanics that can fix and maintain cars that have seen actual road service.

This is not to say that the manufacturers don't indeed have mechanic schools, and I'm pretty sure that most do. But that isn't the factory.

Reply to
spsffan

700 is way to much, dealers often do specials on timing belts and pumps, even 500 is high, shop around
Reply to
ransley

When I had a 91 Camry my independant garage would only use OEM toyota parts. He seemed to do good work at a good price. I had the water pump replaced as the labor was 'free' with the belt change. I usually had the hoses and other minor things changed at the same time. Again 'free' labor as the old parts were already taken off and would have been put back on. It may cost a few more dollars, but worth it for piece of mind.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

On Jan 21, 12:23=A0pm, FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote: =A0One of the questions I'd have for any mechanic

I use an impact wrench. I've tried torquing them with normal torque wrenches, but it's hard to keep the engine from turning. So I get them as tight as I can with a torque wrench, and then I give them a blip with the impact. If you are used to the impact, you can get close enough for gov work. Just a quick blip will do the trick. When removing the nut, I usually use the starter motor to knock it loose if no impact wrench is around. I don't have an impact here. The last one I did I got it as tight as I could, and then drove it around the block to a guy who had an impact wrench in his garage. :/

Reply to
nm5k

I paid 4 and change for both last time at a dealer. But that was 70k miles ago. I'd say 5 is ok. And I guess it would depend on what seals are being replaced.

Reply to
in2dadark

Factory trained means they either went to an off site location or had on site training from toyota. It doesn't mean they went to the factory to build cars. They aren't mechanics now. Automobiles require 'Technicians' now.ie.. Ray O...

i was an ASE certified Tech. Which I'm certain Ray O is. I also have an associates degree in the automotive field. I can tell you with all my training there were techs who could wrench circles around me at many dealerships. Competition is high to get those 'flat rate' jobs and they are VERY good at what they do. And they have a great deal of pride in and love for their work..

Reply to
in2dadark

"badgolferman" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@reader.albasani.net:

Never a /bad/ idea, but expensive. That pump is close to $250, isn't it?

Two things will tell the dealer if the pump needs replacing:

1) how the bearing spins, and 2) if it's leaking or not.

If the bearing still spins with a bit of resistance and has no play to speak of, then it's still good.

Probably the cam and crank seals, and maybe the tensioner as well. There's extra work involved to get at those.

Are you going by the Owner's Manual for your '97?

It's possible the 60K recommendation is simply outdated and that the belt has been redesigned to last longer. In that case, of course, they couldn't go back and rewrite your Manual, so it would continue to show the lesser mileage.

Honda increased its belt change interval around that same time, so maybe there was a change in belt design. I'd have to look it up.

Better make sure! Also make sure they're using Toyota coolant.

Much. Ask the local guys to buy their parts from the dealer. They'll get a 15-25% discount, which they'll then mark up so the price you see is the same as the dealer's retail

Reply to
Tegger

Factory trained means they either went to an off site location or had on site training from toyota. It doesn't mean they went to the factory to build cars. They aren't mechanics now. Automobiles require 'Technicians' now.ie.. Ray O...

i was an ASE certified Tech. Which I'm certain Ray O is. I also have an associates degree in the automotive field. I can tell you with all my training there were techs who could wrench circles around me at many dealerships. Competition is high to get those 'flat rate' jobs and they are VERY good at what they do. And they have a great deal of pride in and love for their work..

****************** I used to be have both ASE Master Technician and Toyota Master Tech status (ASE Master Tech is a prerequisite for Toyota Master Tech status) but I let both expire a long time ago because I no longer work in the automotive field. When I was a district service manager, one of my objectives was to have ASE certified technicians and have Toyota Master Technicians at every dealership. I used to talk to the line techs as well as the service manager, parts manager, service advisors, dealer general manager, and dealer owner to let them know how well they were doing on various metrics, and when I encouraged the techs to take the ASE tests, they wanted to know if I was certified and put my money where my mouth was. I have never worked as a line technician or taken any auto shop courses other than the ones Toyota offered to dealer technicians, but I took all 8 ASE tests, passed engine mechanical, engine performance, electrical, and steering and suspension the first shot and read some books and got the rest later - manual transmission, automatic transmission, HVAC, and brakes later. I think a willingness to practice what I preached, take off my suit coat and roll up my sleeves to work on a car, and a knack for fixing problem cars made the dealer personnel more willing to work with me when I needed their cooperation for me to make my objectives.

i2dadark is correct regarding "factory" training. Dealer technicians travelled to our office, where we had classrooms and a shop for training on various proprietary systems. In the automotive business, "factory" refers to the automaker, so dealer personnel referred to me as a "factory rep" or "guy from the factory."

If anyone wants to get a feel for what the ASE tests are like, google "ASE practive tests.

Reply to
Ray O

What is the "official" way to tighten that crankshaft bolt?

Reply to
FatterDumber& Happier Moe

There is no reason that your local garage can't procure and install OE Toyota parts if that's what you request. Highly recommended that they DO use OE and not use aftermarket. I've seen the OE water pumps fail as early as 104K miles, so definitely replace yours. On the other hand, I've seen the aftermarket pumps cash in at less than 50K miles. Most/all are crap. Use OE Toyota. You also want the camshaft seal, the crankshaft seal, the oil pump drive seal and the O-ring between the oil pump cover and the oil pump housing replaced. They are all on borrowed time. At 180K, I'd also replace the timing belt idler pulleys, one is fixed, the other is the tensioner. The OE water pump may be a few bucks more than aftermarket BUT, it is the whole pump, not half of the pump as supplied aftermarket. OE gets you the proper gasket (not some crap paper) between the pump halves, a proper O-ring between the pump and block and less labor to install.

New Toyota coolant also. No Dexcool, no green, no universal global fits all makes. Toyota has one of the best coolant formulas available.

The difference between the 60K and 90K replacement intervals is an emissions warranty thing. Same parts, different legalese.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Most of the time, Toyota has a special service tool (SST) that holds the crankshaft pulley stationary while you put a wrench on the bolt. I've never seen anyone actually use the SST since a blip with an impact gun does the job.

Reply to
Ray O

"Ray O" wrote in news:hjclvl$in5$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

I made my own SST from a piece of steel bar stock with two holes in it. Cost me five bucks and works wonderfully.

The Tercel has a two-piece pulley which allows use of this type of holding method.

But if you have a manual tranny, you can just rely on the clutch and brakes to hold the pulley still.

Reply to
Tegger

Tegger's design looks very close to the official SST, only sturdier and less expensive!

Reply to
Ray O

"Ray O" wrote in news:hjd97l$aod$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

The steel bar is really too long (an offcut from a supplier) but I couldn't be bothered to cut it down.

You should see my cunning spring compressor.

Most of the stock came from Home Depot. The top plate I had laser-cut at a supplier from my CAD file and their stock. Regular Macpherson-strut compressors don't work on older Hondas, so I had to make this.

Reply to
Tegger

The long bar on the crankshaft pulley holder looks like the perfect length for holding it against the ground to free up a hand. BTW, that doesn't look like a Honda in the photo - the front of the engine is on right side instead of on the driver's side like a typical Honda.

The spring compress is definitely better than the cheesy ones you see in auto parts stores.

Here's the type of spring compressor I'd like to have:

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I like it because it is air operated and has a safety cage to reduce the chance that something slips and come flying out if something snaps or slips. Of course, it is difficult to justify $1,200 for something that I might use once every 5 years.

But then, I need to do something about the rear springs on the Escort when things warm up...

Reply to
Ray O

"Ray O" wrote in news:hjdbap$nss$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

That's a '99 Tercel with the crank pulley holder.

The spring compressor was used for my Integra. I could not find one like it commercially anywhere, so I had to make one. Macpherson-strut spring compressors came nowhere near to fitting.

That's similar to the kind of compressor our local Acura dealer has mounted to their shop wall. It's really fast to use and very convenient.

"When things warm up...". Heh. I hear you, fellow Rust Belt denizen!

Reply to
Tegger

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