Toyota Quality ?

Honda

As reliable as the Camry.

2004 Volkswagen Golf MSRP Price Range $15,580 - $19,320 Invoice Price Range $14,593 - $18,049 2004 Hyundai Elantra MSRP Price Range $13,299 - $14,849 Invoice Price Range $12,241 - $13,667

A base VW versus a Base Elantra? You'd be silly not to spend your $2K more for the VW.

Blah blah blah.

Unfortunately, your praise is anything close to what owners report. Yes, it's a good design. Unfortunately, Chrysler is squeezing quality of the components that are used to make it to the point where the transmissions are practically half broken from the get-go.

VW unfortunately makes turbos that are kind of problematic. Their normal engines and their V6 are good, though.

VW put all of its eggs into TDI engines for decades in Europe and it's a decent design(though you do have to use an additive in the fuel in the U.S.)

Their gasoline turbo version - it's not very good.

That's the problem with most cars today.

It's not rocket science to build a reliable engine and transmission. The technology is over a hundred years old.

Give a person a bulletproof engine and they will gladly deal with the minor things until the car dies from age. The Volvo 240 was a perfect example. Reliable and economical. Nothing fancy - just started and ran pretty much without fail compared to most of the other cars in the 70's and 80's.

Now - was the rest of the car as reliable? No - it was about the same as most other cars. But, because the engine was very well built and didn't break down very often, it got a reputation as a "reliable" car.

IMO, a known head gasket problem that they refuse to fix is a clear "unreliable" mark in my book. It's completely inexcuseable, just like it is in the GM 3.1 and 3.4 engines.

Believe it or not, Hyundai is much worse. Yes, they have a ten year warranty. Good luck getting anything not obviously broken fixed.

Don't even get me started on the flimsy doors, cheap buttons and switches, and so on. Hyundai builds *cheap* cars but prices them a lot higher for the U.S. market than they do in Korea.

very

slip. I

Mazda has extremely bad reputation. Look at the new rx-8's. They are replacing engines on them!

very

slip. I

I traded it for a for runner because a buddy of mine has a 1987 model (4 cylinder) with close to 300,000 miles on it. Another person with the 6 cylinder is approaching 200,000 miles on his and did nothing but oild changes. This is why I got the 4runner.

I may consider an American truck some day, but not now. I don't think the 4 runner is inferior.

Mike

For having such cool cars, what are you doing posting here so much and not driving them?

Shit, I post cuz I am stuck at work, I would be driving otherwise!

Dan

But then driving a Volvo, you are labeled as a leftist liberal, so most stick to Toyotas :)

Do you have any hard proof to back these erroneous assertions up?

Hyundai has now almost overtaken Toyota in quality. Says who? Says JD Powers.

Quality Is Apparently Job One ... at Hyundai

• The South Korean automaker speeds past U.S. and European rivals to finish No. 2 in an industrywide survey.

By John O'Dell, Times Staff Writer

South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co. roared past European and American rivals to finish in a stunning second place Wednesday in a J.D. Power & Associates survey of model year 2004 vehicles.

Japanese automaker Toyota Motor Corp. topped the market research firm's "initial quality" ratings for the sixth year in a row, largely on the strength of its flourishing Lexus luxury brand.

But Hyundai climbed eight rungs in the J.D. Power survey, tying with Honda Motor Co. of Japan for second place based on consumer complaints about all brands that a carmaker sells.

"No one would have dreamed it possible a decade ago," Brian Walters, J.D. Power's vehicle research director, said of Hyundai's rise.

In the early 1990s, Fountain Valley-based Hyundai Motor America could barely give its cars away. Hyundais then were cheap vehicles plagued by problems with their cooling and braking systems and poor assembly.

Hyundai executives in Seoul decided to make quality a priority. As the cars began improving, Hyundai Motor America in 1998 launched an unheard-of 10-year, 100,000-mile warranty on crucial powertrain parts. The idea was to show consumers that the company stood behind its quality claims, and sales have since picked up.

Hyundai Motor spokesman Chris Hosford said, "Everybody in the building is walking around with huge smiles, but this already is history. What we have to focus on is to keep improving. Doing this again next year is the goal."

The J.D. Power survey is based on responses from 51,000 buyers who purchased new cars and trucks in November and December. They were asked about problems in the first 90 days of ownership, and complaints ranged from squeaky dashboards to engine failures. Because J.D. Power's study rates all defects evenly, it tells more about production and showroom preparation quality than long-term durability, which the Westlake Village market research firm covers in a separate survey.

Overall, the new-vehicle study shows that the quality gap between American and import models is closing and that most automakers are continuing to improve product quality, Walters said. The industry average this year was 119 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 133 problems last year.

Toyota's brands averaged 101 problems per 100 vehicles sold, while Hyundai and Honda each had an average of 102 problems per 100 vehicles. Honda's score includes its Acura brand.

BMW, including its Mini brand, finished fourth with 116 problems per

100 vehicles. All other automakers finished below the industrywide corporate quality average of 119 problems, with Porsche of Germany dead last with a score of 159.

In J.D. Power's rankings of individual brands, Toyota's Lexus luxury vehicles topped the initial quality ratings, for the fourth year in a row, with 87 problems per 100 vehicles sold.

Cadillac, owned by General Motors Corp., placed second at 93, followed by Ford Motor Co.'s Jaguar at 98; Honda at 99; and GM's Buick and Ford's Mercury at 100 each.

Hyundai finished seventh among individual brands with 102 problems per

100 vehicles, while Toyota and Infiniti, Nissan Motor Co.'s luxury brand, tied at eighth place with scores of 104. DaimlerChrysler's Mercedes-Benz brand, plagued in recent years by problems with complex electrical systems, rounded out the top 10 with 106 problems reported per 100 vehicles sold.

But Toyota's new youth- oriented brand, Scion, finished near the bottom of the pack at 34th of 37 brands rated, with 158 problems. Most of the Scion complaints were related to customer preference issues ? the ride was too stiff or the air conditioner didn't get cold enough fast enough ? rather than actual quality flaws, Toyota said.

Volkswagen, which has seen its U.S. sales plummet, was the second-worst-performing major brand, with 164 complaints per 100 vehicles sold. GM's military-style Hummer brand brought up the rear with 173 problems.

*

(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)

Best and worst

Hyundai made the biggest jump in the J.D. Power annual survey of auto problems in the first 90 days of ownership.

Top five

Rank Company Score*

1 Toyota 101 2 Hyundai 102 (Tie) Honda 102 4 BMW 116 5 General Motors 120

Bottom five

10 Volkswagen 141 11 Nissan 147 12 Suzuki 149 13 Kia 153 14 Porsche 159

*Problems per 100 vehicles

Source: J.D. Power & Associate

Dummy, at my age and with my kind on money you don't work you OWN the place. LOL

mike hunt

Chris Philip wrote:

That's strange you don't seem to know much of anything although you like to comment as if you do, Holmes. ;)

mike hunt

Chris Philip wrote:

You are splitting hairs. An alternator is a form of a generator.

Ed

Over the years I have learned not to place much trust in JD Powers reports, whether they are saying good things or bad things about a manufacture. JD Powers reports in themselves are useless in determining which is the better vehicle for you money. They have one purpose and that is to sell information to the manufactures for use in their advertising. Every manufacture who pays their high subscription fee gets something 'good' to use. Problems per 100 vehicles within the first 90 days of ownership? What does that mean? The 'problems' are not quantified as too severity or equated to initial vehicle price. A loose screw is equal to a failed tranny. To find the difference among the problems one must pay them the thousands of dollars for a 'subscription.' In 2003 over 16,000,000 new vehicle were sold in the US, they surveyed only 51,000 buyers out of 16M. I buy a new vehicle every year and I receive a survey from them EVERY year. Does that make you believe the surveying is not random? The reason I always get surveyed is I respond to EVERY survey. A portion of those that receive a survey will be those like me that they know will respond. Like CR, JD Powers is just one more 'opinion' of what is the 'best' vehicle. Does anyone believe that Hyundai, at 102, is as good a Honda or better than its sister the KIA at 153? Does anyone really believe that VW at 141 per 100, is a better vehicle than their luxury brand, Porsche? Or that the Porsche, at 159 is the worst of all the car sold in the US? I think not. The irony is of course even for those that are that naive,' by the time JD Powers and CR issue there reports on the vehicles that have been available during the model year, they are being replaced by those of the new model year. In many cases those that are now being offered for sale are completely new and different than those sold on the past and are now longer available. ;)

mike hunt

Chucky wrote:

news:...

Considering I average 12 to 15K on each vehicle I spend a lot of time driving which I enjoy doing. I still consult to the fleet service company I once owned. It is while in consultation with a tech on one of the stations that I stop into the various NG's while waiting for them to perform whatever work they need to accomplish. The beauty of current technology is I can post from my laptop via a bunch of different satellite connected stations, hence the various 'names,' that are connected to a common server that is connected to the Internet. I can easily do so wherever I may even while in my vehicles. ;)

mike hunt

"Dan JCS." wrote:

A 78 year old mechanic would *not* miss ... you.

--

    -Philip

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm
not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
                                                                   -
Albert Farkminster

"TDI" is a trademark for a specific electronic fuel injection system with enhanced fuel control that Volkswagen has employed only in recent years. Volkswagen's earlier turbo charged diesels did not have this kind of fuel control.

--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM

Ed... eat a bug.

--

- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM