Transmission fluid change on '98 V6

Hi Mark,

In article ,

Thanks for the info. Do you mean "replace" the filter? I was told that these filters are metal and don't need replacing. I'll check the manual and see what it says.

Also in your other post you suggested synthetic transfluid. This car as about 95 k miles on it and hasn't been using synthetic. The question is will switching cause any problems?

Also, the V6 drain plug IIRC drains the diff + trans.

Thanks! Jay.

Just drain more often, does yours have a drain plug, I do mine at 7-12 thousand miles it takes 5 minutes. Dont powerflush. After 25 you should drop the pan and put in a filter, 60 - 70$

Dont forget drain the differential, use Synthetic, you will notice the difference.

The flush machine operates using the internal pump in the transmission, so there is no power flush ....he fluid going through the transmission when the machine is in use is at the exact pressure it is when you are driving so that concern is non existant. The difference in the services is that a drain and fill only removes aprox 1/2 the fluid , leaving the torque convertor full of old fluid to contaminate the new stuff. The flush machine effectively changes 99% of the fluid , we have never had damage to a customers car using it , but I guess never say never... I would use the flush machine. As for the mileage interval Toyota used to say 15k, now they are saying 30k. I do mine about every 15-20 and its dirty.

Brad

local Toyota dealer and they wanted $125 (or thereabouts) for

That's kind of steep. I'm sure you can find better pricing.

Shops like to protect themselves from potential liability, but if you've been changing the transmission fluid every 25K miles, there shouldn't be any "contaminants caked on the wall." ATF fluid is highly detergent. If you change it regularly, contaminants are held in suspension. It is only when the fluid is "burned," that is overheated and discolored, and drain intervals are neglected, that contaminants settle out of solution.

More is better, especially, when as you've stated, you're only getting less than half out with a drain and fill. Sorta depends on conditions. Key is not to let the fluid overheat and degrade. Under higher operating temperatures, or harder use, would make sense to drain more often. There's really only one bolt. Once you get the 10mm Allen head socket and learn how to check level with the unit fully warmed to operating temperature, you can do your own changes.

adding chemicals to the process. Normally a transmission "flush" does extract the fluid without high pressure by disconnecting one of the cooler lines from the transmission to the cooler in the bottom of the radiator, and then connecting the other cooler line to a machine holding new transmission fluid, letting the internal oil pump in the transmission circulate the old fluid out and the new fluid in. When mine was done, it took around fifteen minutes once they got started, so it's not really a power flush, but does fully exchange all the old fluid for new. I have some instructions how to do this yourself, but it's likely to be messy. The main idea is to keep the transmission fluid clean, not darkened. If you drain and fill regularly, you probably don't need the complete fluid exchange. If it's been neglected, can be a good idea. It the fluid changes have been severely neglected (doesn't sound like you) then some mechanics don't even like to drain the fluid figuring the transmission is going to break soon anyway, and they don't want to be the last one to touch it.

Brad, Daniel and Mark,

Thank you all for the informative responses. I was lead to believe a "power flush" shoves fluid in at some high pressure, thanks for setting me straight.

Perhaps so but if it's not too complicated to do by myself, I might be inclined to do that since the dealers aren't being fair on pricing or providing any kind of detailed knowledge.

Daniel, could you post these directions? From yours and Brad's posts it sounds like the cooler hose to the radiator is disconnected and new fluid is fed it.

Though I don't know the details, does the car to be in a driving gear, does fluid go in through the dip stick, etc, etc.

I have the repair manual (it's physically not with me at the moment), does it provide any detailed information on this procedure?

Best regards! Jay.

suggested synthetic transfluid. This car as

One can never say never, but there should not be a problem. As you're leaning toward drain and fill, and the synthetic Mobil 1 for example is fully compatible with the standard ATF, you could add it progressively. The synthetic ATF has better high temperature stability and greater film strength.

These are generic instructions (Camry doesn't have a filter element but a metal screen), plus I have not tried them - I used a local oil change place where I trusted the operator and they used the machine to exchange all the fluid while I observed, but if it makes sense to you, you could try this:

drop pan, change filter, reinstall. Measuring the old fluid in pan into a milk bottle type container. Install that amount of new ATF back into transmission. Disconnect BOTH ATF cooler lines at radiator and place a container or pan under each line end (helps to have an assistant). Start engine, shut down after 1 or 2 quarts have come out one of the lines. Refill exact amount of fresh fluid in transmission ( keeps air out of system).

Start engine again and repeat until clean fluid is coming out of cooler line. This is messy and time consuming but will purge all old ATF from transmission and torque converter. Reinstall cooler lines and start car, cycle through gears, place in park and check level per owners manual. Check for leaks. Top up as necessary after driving and heated up. Don't overfill.

You just safely flushed the whole system

This procedure exposes the EXPENSIVE transmission pump to short periods of running without lubrication.

Remove one transmission line. with the ignition disable, crank over the engine for 5 seconds to determine if ATF exits the line you disconnected or the radiator fitting. Let's assume oil exits the cooler line.

Put 6 quarts in a CLEAN pail.

Fit a rubber line from the radiator fitting with the other end in the pail of new fluid

Fit a rubber line from the cooler line to an empty pail of similar capacity.

Now start engine an idle until nearly all fluid is pulled from the pail of new AFT.

Stop the engine.

Put everything back together. Restart and check fluid level with engine running.

I like this procedure better. Just like the machine method but without the expense. Hope you don't mind if I save this for tuture reference. Never did this procedure, had mine done at a shop when first acquiring the car, then just kept up by draining the pan regularly. Only thing I would add, is that while the stated capacity of the transmission is around six quarts, the fluid exchange using this method may not be 100% efficient.. My four cylinder used twelve (12) quarts, so you might have to run this procedure twice to actually get all the old fluid out.

Here are some additional ideas:

Basically you have method 1 and method 2. Method 1, was pulled from a web site that sells a transmission additive, so presumably customers have run the procedure many times without incident. That would be where you just set out two buckets, run the car 'til a couple quarts come out and re-fill through the dip stick tube. Method 2, you ascertain the supply and return lines from the transmission to the transmission cooler (or "heat exchanger") in the bottom of the radiator and use two buckets, one full - one empty to exchange the fluid. The reason I'm aware of the fluid quantities is that when I had mine done I insisted on using genuine Toyota brand ATF and brought my own bottles. They estimated 10 - 12 quarts would be needed and suggested bringing an extra quart or two, so I purchased fourteen (14) quarts of ATF, and wound up returning only two after the procedure completed. According to the factory manual, the 4 cylinder transmission total capacity is 5.9 quarts, so when exchanging fluid through the cooler lines, it appears that as the fluid circulates internally in the transmission, only half is directed through the lines going to the base of the radiator. This probably explains why you can use method 1 and not suck air through the return line and ruin the transmission oil pump - because it would still be circulating half its volume internally. Still I like method 2 better. If I were doing this, to determine the supply and return lines, rather than disconnecting and briefly checking for flow, I'd go this way: Not sure about the six, but on the four cylinder, there a some nicely curved metal lines, not too far below the starter motor, off the transmission where the flexible lines connect from the cooler. These are easily accessible even with the engine running. I'd just touch them to see which is warmer. That would be the supply line where you'll empty the old fluid, and the other less warm line would be the return, where you'll draw in the new fluid. I clean my own swimming pool, so I've got a growing collection of large empty, plastic buckets from the 3" chlorine tabs. Any five gallon bucket should do - that's twenty quarts, and you'll only use 10 or so. As previously mentioned, you need to be scrupulously clean - even the tiniest bit of contaminant can interfere with correct operation of the valve body. I've read this procedure being done where someone used a barbed connector to hook an extension from the flex cooler lines to the buckets. I think the better method is just to measure the width of the metal lines off the transmission to get the inside diameter of the tubing, go to a home improvement store, and buy some clear tubing that's long enough to reach your buckets, and then connect directly to the metal transmission tubing by just removing the existing flex lines. I'd also be concerned about sucking air through the return line if your bucket is on the floor. I'd probably elevate the return bucket with the fresh fluid by placing it on a table, a chair, or anything to raise it above the level of the transmission. Then, holding up one end, pour fluid through the line until it's filled, then immerse it in the fluid in your bucket. Alternately, you could take the end going to the transmission, and siphon out fluid until it's flowing then immediately connect to the transmission line. If you use a clamp (obviously not compressing the tubing), or even duct tape, to hold the tubing in place at the edge of these buckets, you could have the whole thing set up before starting the engine, and there should be no mess at all. You'd just watch your fluid being fully exchanged and shut it off when you see clean light red fluid coming out through the supply line. One final cautionary note. Most transmission fail from contaminated old fluid, or the wrong fluid level. When you're done, check the fluid on the "cold" preliminary lower section of the dip stick, and then drive at least ten miles to fully warm the transmission before checking and topping up the final level. Add fluid slowly and carefully and you should be able to get it just right.

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Further explanation. If the car has been normalized (driven for 10 miles), both heat exchanger lines will be the same temperature because the ATF and the engine coolant have become the same temperature. Where the car is simply allowed to achieve operating temperature (from cold start) by idling, the heat exchanger inlet would be *cooler* than the heat exchanger's outlet ... for awhile. If you drove up a long grade, stopped at the top, and compared the heat exchanger line temperatures, the inlet would be hotter and the outlet would relatively cooler.

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COMPLETELY unnecessary.

Good grief. NO no no.

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and

That's the object of this exercise ... one that can be avoided by simply dropping the fluid at the drain plug every 15k miles or thereabouts and replacing only what drained with new ATF.

Here's what you could do. Let the car warm up from cold start. Transmission fluid certainly will not be hot yet. When the radiator warms, the warm line to the transmission is the fluid retuning from the radiator. (so the other line is the one you put in the bucket to capture the used fluid) Even if you inadvertendly switched the buckets, it would become apparent relatively soon. I agree that this procedure is at most needed only once, then the fluid can be kept clean by draining at regular intervals.

Philip,

I'm about to do have a mechanic friend help me with the transmissi> Remove one transmission line. with the ignition disable, crank over

Is this just to determine which line from the transmission exhausts fluid to the radiator for cooling and which line is used to flow cooled fluid to the transmission?

To crank without starting, would I pull an appropriate fuse? (i.e. fuel pump)

Also:

Just re-stating a little here:

I'd want to run a rubber hose from the radiator "intake" (where it recieves heated fluid from the transmission) to the clean pail?

And then run the line that was just pulled to an empty pail?

If I understand correctly, the clean fluid will be then be pulled through the radiator into the transmission.

Also, when I idle to actually exchange the fluid, does the car need to be "Neutral" or just leave it in Park?

Finally, do I need to worry about air bubbles as Daniel brought up, or will I be OK just re-connecting the hoses after all the fluid has been exchanged?

Thanks so much! Jay.