Used Oil Analysis of CAMRY'S Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 after 4,920 miles

Absolutely true...

Essentially true as well.

Reply to
HLS
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Speaking of other repulsive procedures... there's a Philippine dish called "siopao" which is basically pork-filled bread. While visiting the Philippines, there was a story on the local news about the Chinese substituting the pork with cardboard... they'd soak cardboard in water overnight, then stuff that into the siopaos and sell them.

Never heard about the human hair though... yecch.

I bought some food-grade Aspergillus oryzae planning on making ethanol at home (basically a modified Japanese sake process) but it stinks up the garage too much, so I abandoned that line of experiments... but A. oryzae from what I hear is used in making soy sauce... maybe brew your own?

Michael

Reply to
Michael

Actually if Amsoil, Mobil 1, and the other synthetic manufacturers had controlled studies that supported the value of synthetic, for wear, fuel economy, etc., then you can be sure that they'd be telling _everyone_ about them. And you can be certain that a company like Mobil 1 has performed such studies in the hope that they'd get some useful data for marketing purposes.

That they're reduced to statements like "Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions and your current engine oil viscosity. The higher your current viscosity equates to a greater potential for savings."

Well yeah, if you go from 5W30 to 0W20 you might save a little fuel, but typically you'll go from 5W30 to 0W30 where you'll save almost zero.

Reply to
SMS

Many eurotrash engines truly require "high HTHS" oils that can only be engineered synthetically from the best base stocks, along with severe sludge prevention additives to not self destruct in short order. Camshafts on some of the high tech and/or 5 valve VW/Audis are prone to failure with underspeced oil for the application. I say all the more reason not to buy those cars :-)

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

On Jul 7, 5:51=A0pm, ransley wrote:

That's why I use the castrol syntec blend. To help prevent coking and sludge build up in the hot head areas. And from what I've seen so far, synth oil and to a slightly lesser extent synth blends, do resist coking vs dino oils. It flows better when cold, but that's not a big issue to me at this location. The Toyota I have now is the first car I've ever used synth or synth blend. But it had low miles to begin with, and I want it to last 300k miles, and the previous sludge problems made me paranoid. I never want to see that problem on mine. Yes, they supposedly modified the heads to make them less prone to sludge, but I've heard of the problem on the newer models too. It didn't totally go away, but I do have to wonder about the oil change skeds of the ones with newer models that sludge. I feel the extra protection from sludge is cheap insurance on that car. I sleep better at night. I change it every 5k as per the Toyota schedule. I'd never use extended oil changes as I feel it's stupid. I want the dirt and crud out of my engine on a regular basis. I want a new filter on a regular basis. And I want new oil on a regular basis as the detergents, etc are depleted. BTW, I know this is not a controlled test, but I know of people that have torn down engines that used various oils through their life. I know of one that has torn down several of his own engines, and knew what oil they had used through the years. He stated that the engines that used synth oils had lower engine wear, and were generally cleaner when town down after 150-200k+ miles. He said the wear using dino oil was quite acceptable, but not quite as good as an engine that had run synth oil it's whole life. Not a scientific test by any means, but I believe him when he said the high miles synth oiled engines had less sludge and overall wear. He didn't work for an oil co., and had to reason to lie about it. But for me, it varies to the vehicle, type of engine, potential problems, etc.. I use dino oil in both of my old Ford trucks. I don't feel synth oil is worth the extra money for those engines as they are not as critical as the higher rev, hotter head temp FI four banger in my Corolla. But like I say, I paid a pretty good hunk of change for the Corolla, and with the past sludge issues, I consider paying an extra buck or two a quart for the synth blend cheap insurance. BTW, I don't use oil analysis. No need.. I can tell if something ain't right just listening to it run. :/ Unless there is a problem to be diagnosed, I consider an oil test as basically a waste of money. I didn't even bother on my rebuilt Ford 300 after the first 500 mile oil change. What good would it do? Not much unless I had an obvious problem like a suspected bad bearing, etc. Being it ran great, I couldn't see wasting money to get someone else to verify from the oil that it was running great. Kinda silly.. :/ I'd rather save the money for future oil changes.

Reply to
nm5k

Block heaters, over a period of time, consume a lot of electricity. One isn't able to plug in unless at home, as a rule.

Reply to
Sharx35

Shorts? I don't even OWN any shorts--at least the kind that one would wear outside or in a gym.

Reply to
Sharx35

IIRC, it was not a high operating temperature that caused the sludging in that particular series.

It was difficult to get the straight story, but Toyota said that in every case, the owner had not serviced the vehicle conscientiously. But, they also lowered the oil change interval after that.

Others said that the PCV system on those cars had been revised, and that might have been a causative factor in the sludging.

I do not believe that Toyota recommended changing types of oil to solve the problem.

Please correct me if my memory is faltering.

Reply to
HLS

Oh, BS... You can heat your block for a long time for the cost of 5 litres of synthetic oil.

Where I got cold weather experience, our homes, hotels, and even some parking areas had provisions for block heaters.

Reply to
HLS

The TOTAL cost of the syn oil is NOT the figure to use. One should use the DIFFERENCE in price between SYN and DINO oil for a fair comparison. Incredible. Someone pays 40, 50, 60 thou for a vehicle and whines and moans about paying an extra buck a litre or so.

Reply to
Sharx35

I didnt whine and moan. The truth is not really in you, it is?

Why would I pay extra money for a product that the manufacturer doesnt recommend? That would be a little stupid, but maybe you would do this. Especially when the manufacturer tells me to change oil at 5000 miles?

Did your mama have any normal children?

Reply to
HLS

Toyota, much like most of the asian makers, still offer the ultra lame ILSAC GF-x (x=4 these days) oil recommendation, along with an SAE weight (usually 5W30 until recently). Thank God for them telling me to use ILSAC GF-4 oil, otherwise I would just buy anything off the shelf (which would automatically be GF-4) - so what's the point, really? GF-4 certification is mostly concerned with the oil's fuel efficiency. I couldn't care less. The other day I noticed that a bottle of olive oil in our pantry was GF-4 certified. Whoopty. A better alternative would be to create a specific set of oil requirements like the big 3 and most euros do, then offer them in specification packages, i.e. Toy1 for older cars, Toy2 for 5W20, Toy3 for 0W20 hybrid ICEs, etc. If the major lube companies wanted to sell more oil they would have to get on board and offer products that would get tested then meet Toyota specific certs. Honda/Acura did it for just a couple of cars (HTO-06 spec) *and* several companies then jumped on board and offered reasonably priced HTO-06 cert oils, so certainly Toyota could get on the ball and at least come up with a spec for the SAE 5W20 class that dominates their oil requirements from about 2005-on.

The good thing is that Toyotas don't and never have required any special level of oil technology to prevent *mechanical wear*. The bad thing is that some of their engines would sludge faster than other manufacturers' engines when the oil wasn't either A) changed at an appropriate frequency for driving habits or B) designed with superior acid fighting additives as found in some high dollar full synths RE: ACEA rated products.

Clearly the cheaper maintenance option is to use $2.75/qt oil and change appropriately. Soccer mom driving habits require frequent oil changes or very expensive oil. Toyota just had pushed the limits of reduced PCV and some other design factors I don't quite understand to aid in fuel efficiency and driveability. Other makes had plenty of sludging problems for the same reasons, but weren't as prolific as the mass number of post '96 5S-FEs and 1MZ-FEs. Those engines accounted for most of the Toyota powerplants for nearly a decade. I promise you that you can sludge a Zetec, a VTEC, a Hemi, a semi, whatever you got, with inappropriate oil change frequency for your unique driving habits.

You are much more correct than your tough guy buddy on this topic.

Reply to
Toyota MDT in MO

I believe that the issue was not overall high operating temperature, but some particular places in the block where the oil passed rather slowly across very heated metal. An oil with a higher breakdown point would prevent the formation of sludge. An oil with better solvent characteristics would prevent the sludge from being deposited after being formed. An oil that was changed more often would prevent the sludge from increasing to the level where it was deposited. Change your oil every 3,000 miles and don't worry.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

Wait, these are the people that eat balut? And they shy away at a little bit of cardboard?

It's a special new scientific soy sauce!

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Dunno, but I will say that soy sauce factories don't smell so hot either.

--scott

Reply to
Scott Dorsey

I dont know that heat alone was the answer. I am not sure that that was ever settled openly and scientifically.

We do know that some of those engines had a tendency to form "sludge" if run too long. It could have been heat, but also could have been contamination from the PCV system, or a combination of things.

At the time, IIRC, Toyota specified 7500 mile oil changes. Now they have dropped it to 5000 miles, but still dont specify synthetic.

Hydrocarbons - ALL hydrocarbons, including synthetics - can deteriorate if exposed to extreme conditions....moisture, oxygen, acid or acid gases, extreme shear (VI improvers go first, but even the shorter chains can be sheared in time), dilution by fuel, etc..

I dont challenge that with synthetics (at least some of them) you can tailor the properties to be what you want them to be and can some up with some very good specifications.

You could possibly match that by carefully refining petroleum oils, selecting ideal distillation ranges, hydrogenating, etc...But if you did this, you would in essence have something that was "synthetic" and that would cost darn near as much as, or more than, the "real" synthetics.

I do believe that Toyota knew what had happened but never fully disclosed it. They were magnanimous in repairing the most of those cars, but they never really totally accepted the blame.

I guess that problem was magically cured, by engineering or by oil change specs, and I hope it does not come back to haunt us.

When I change the oil on our Avalon and on the new Solara, the oil is clear and nonturbid, slightly amber, and totally freeflowing.

Since I do it myself, I will continue to do it at 3500-4000 miles, and will bet you a beer that I never have any lubricant related problems.

Reply to
HLS

Block heaters cost to much to run

Reply to
ransley

If we wanted cardboard, we'd order cardboard.

I guess their problem is they forgot to wash the hair first. Otherwise, hey, give the customer a choice, eh?

Imagine what they could do with chicken feathers!

I believe it! Is it a kind of heavy musty smell? That's what I get from Aspergillus oryzae. Took a couple of months for the smell to completely dissipate from my garage.

Michael

Reply to
Michael

I believe they hydrolyze it to carnitine.

Reply to
HLS

Does that make it taste better?

Reply to
Ray O

Well major modifications like that will probably require re- certification with the EPA. And instead of re-certify all their engines it's probably easier to reduce the oil change interval.

And my guess is that's precisely why Toyota reduced the oil change interval from 7500 miles to 5000 miles in 2004 for ALL it's models -- because they're more likely to sludge. This happens during a time when GM and Honda extended to 12,000 miles and European cars on synthetics were running 15K-20K mile intervals for years.

Reply to
john

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