What did Toyota know, and when did they know it?

I think it's safe to say most people know I am a Toyota fan, but some of the stuff coming out in the news recently is not settling well with me. First there is the allegation that Toyota made a "deal" for a recall for floor mats that is being interpreted as a cover up for a wider problem. Now Toyota officials have been supoenaed to Congrees to testify what they knew about the situation, what they did, and what actions were (or weren't) taken.

It appears even to me that in an effort to displace GM as the world's leading automaker Toyota may have done things not exactly in keeping with their corporate culture. It remains to be seen which side of the Pacific these measures originated from.

I have had a LOT of Toyotas, I like Toyotas, but I am disappointed. This is the kind of crap I have come to expect from GM. And I think a lot of you know how I feel about GM...

It almost seems the NUMMI experiment backfired, and instead of Toyota teaching GM how to build a quality, reliable vehicle, GM taught Toyota how to lie and cheat...?

Reply to
Hachiroku
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Right. It's GM's fault.

Reply to
Bob Cooper

Let's try this:

It almost seems the NUMMI experiment backfired, and instead of Toyota teaching GM how to build a quality, reliable vehicle, GM taught Toyota how to lie and cheat...?

Help any?

BTW, I just heard on the radio, a spokesman for GM saying, "We have ALWAYS complied with recall guidelines..."

ROFLMAO!!! RIGHT!!!!

Reply to
Hachiroku

Here's where at least half the blame belongs. Ignore "bailout hearings" and extrapolate to ANY situation where elected barnacles are entangled with corporations.

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Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Once again. It's GM'S fault. If you have a problem with that, then don't bring up GM when talking about Toyota. Pretty simple. If you can't manage that, it means it's GM's fault. Fine with me.

Reply to
Bob Cooper

In message , Hachiroku writes

Just what happened to Daimler and Chrysler, Daimler thought they could boot-strap Chrysler into a maker of reliable cars for the American market, instead Chrysler pulled Daimler down to it's level, now after a messy divorce, Daimler's reliability is seriously in question and they're having to through a lot of money at building reliability and prestige again.

Reply to
Clive

Hachiroku wrote in news:hm0pij$6dc$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:

I have to admit a sense of unease now as well...

The Wall Street Journal had an article a week or so ago that had to do with the culture of Japan, specifically in relation to the current Toyota controversy. The article described how, while perfection is always the goal, the failure to attain it is accompanied by deep social opprobrium. Japanese culture thus offers considerable encouragement for Japanese to keep mistakes from public view (to save face) but to fix them them on-the- fly as quickly as possible.

I wish I'd kept that article, so I could give a link here. Can't remember the title of it, but the front page of that section was decorated with several dozen identical pictures of bowing Japanese, arranged in a grid.

However, it must be kept in mind that media coverage of Toyota has, with the odd exception, been entirely one-sided, and has been presented in isolation, with absolutely no comparison to other automakers' problems.

The NHTSA has about 40 recall investigations going, only three of which involve Toyota. I read a comment from an NHTSA official a couple of weeks ago, where he said he could not understand the flap about Toyota, given how other automakers are handling their own NHTSA investigations. The comment was buried towards the bottom of the article it was in, and there was no elaboration of that comment. Again, I did not keep the article.

What makes me /most/ uneasy about this issue, is that there is now considerable political pressure on the feds to be seen to be "tough and mean" on Toyota; to make a show that no corporation can push the government around. And I am afraid that what the feds eventually do will be excessively damaging to Toyota as a company, or to the auto industry in general.

All I want to see is an honest investigation, without vengeance or ass- covering from the political class. I don't think we're going to get that.

Reply to
Tegger

Pictures don't match, but is this the article?

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Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Yes. Mind control and flouridated water are terrible when used for destructive purposes. Even when the source is a relatively small production line in California, the tenacles of evil can rapidly spread, encompassing the earth in a surprisingly short time. I recommend bringing all water to a rapid boil for at least 3 minutes, and the wearing of a tin-foil cap when near strangers. A 2000 mile check of precious bodily fluids is also a good precaution.

Reply to
Bob Cooper

well said.

like "cash for clunkers" didn't work as planned, in that it failed to stimulate the domestic auto industry, the effect on domestics of this ridiculous witch hunt will be dramatic. domestic manufacturers have lower quality standards and poorer production management than toyota. if the same standards are applied to them as toyota, with tougher legislation which is where this will inevitably lead, those guys are in for a rough ride. frod may have gotten away with turning investigator's blind eyes to hundreds of deaths caused by their past cost cutting decisions, but not any more. this has serious q.c. and financial implications for the whole industry, and domestics, as usual, are about as poorly placed to compete as it's possible to be.

Reply to
jim beam

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in news:BGSgn.21785$e% snipped-for-privacy@newsfe08.iad:

That's it!

Reply to
Tegger

I predict 3-5 years down the road, Toyota cars will be rated better and longer lasting than ever before. They will not only change base component quality but how they approach problems before they are issues.

It will be an honest investigation, but finding a cause to issues that even Steve Wozniak, Apples founder declared and was ignored on will be hard to pinpoint, Wozniak says its software, but is it from RF, microwave, sunspots? I dont know but a temporary glitch can be impossible to find.

Reply to
ransley

Its GMs fault? So GM is a bunch of Liars that helped toyota Lie. So Toyota is Lying and Cheating you say. I used you think you were logical, before your recall rants.

Reply to
ransley

Youa re going to have to explain to me how Chrysler pulled Daimler down to it's level. I don't think Daimler sent a bunch of Chrysler managers to Germany to run things. Given the attitude of Germans I have worked with think, I think it is highly unlikely (impossible) that Daimler adopted any Chryler proceedures for building or evaluating vehicles. I've always liked German cars - at least when new. And a lot of the hard mechaical parts are excellent. But German electronics...well they suck. And since modern cars that are so heavily dependent on electronics, is it any surprise that German cars, particualrly older German cars, are having lots of problems?

In Germany there are very few cars older than 8 years. German attitudes and German laws make it unpopular/impractical to keep cars much past eight years. So I think I can understand why 10 year old BMWs in the US always seem to have tail light out, burned up alternators, and power windows that don't work.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

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I was busy.

Reply to
JoeSpareBedroom

Well, I know that you're a Toyota fanboy who can't mention Toyota's current problems without bringing up 30 year old GM cars like the Vega, the Citation, etc. And I know that you are so far gone as a fanboy that you even affect a Japaneses name. Tin hat territory, fella. Stems from fanaticism. I know that. so there. BTW, I only read the tech group, so perhaps I'm just not accustomed to the fanboy wackyism spillover from the Toy groups. But it's no big deal. Usenet is a refuge for wackos.

Reply to
Bob Cooper

Go right ahead. I'm sure those with similar inclinations as yours will enjoy it.

I looked it up. Japanese term for a car. No interest beyond that. You may wish to rattle on about it. So you use a Japanese term - as your usenet name. Quibble all you want, fanboy. BTW, if you called youself Pierogi, I'd take that as a Polish affectation, even though it means stuffed dumpling.

Right. As you've stated, - what, a hundred times by now? Doesn't bother me, I'm not writing it.

Seems you're the one who is disturbed by my postings. You are quite welcome to put me in your bin. But you're nuttier than I thought if you think I need, or would heed any advice from you. Unless it's useful. Haven't seen that. Just the typical fanboyism I've seen for years on usenet. Carry on.

Reply to
Bob Cooper

They don't really bother me, except for the fact you're a foghorn that needs to sound off even when it's not needed. White noise. Useless.

Do you even know what a car is?

Like I said. You don't have to respond. But you keep doing so anyway. Waste case. But you'll keep running your yap, anyway.

TTFN!

Reply to
Hachiroku

Right. Just as you will. You remind me of Mike Hunter, except he doesn't repeat himself so often. And he seems a bit younger than you. Might be a wrong impression. But you certainly seem from your posts to have vast auto experience. Even more than Mike. I really like the ten or 15 times you've recounted not getting that HHR. Can you tell that story again? Almost seems that all your car experience has gifted you with the ability to actually motormouth. Oh, HHR, Corolla, Accura. 12 each. Many miles. Excellent quality. Great in the twistys. Some car stuff for you. Didn't mean to be too technical.

Reply to
Bob Cooper

In message , C. E. White writes

You're totally uneducated about Europe then. It's the Italian cars that have very unreliable electrics. Bosch has an enviable name in all things electronic and cars are no exception. May-be you're thinking about some American factory that is turning out Bosch supplies, over there with locally sourced rubbish parts.

Reply to
Clive

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